So Dogen (in the temple) explains in every man there is a scale (remember the cave, scale, stones) with good and evil. The machine tests that and Sayid's swung the wrong way and that's why he wanted to kill him. It looked pretty obvious that the temple people drowned Sayid and the pool and Dogen pronounces him dead. Miles will later confirm that the walking Sayid is actually dead. Or is he joking? Is Sayid not really dead? Why can't Dogen see Sayid's dead- he tried "again" with the pills last time and with a knife this episode. I tend to believe Miles since he can hear the dead and all...but questions remain... Dogen attacks Sayid, they fight, and just as Dogen is about to plunge the knife in Sayid, Dogen's baseball rolls off the table- you can go Sayid, but don't come back- I've really got to get that ball. ??? Maybe the ball reminded Dogen of his son (or is his son's) and that he can't kill Sayid that way because his own scale will swing the wrong way?
Claire asks Locke why it has to be her. She seems normal, here, like she's dreading what she was told to do. She asks why Locke can't do it or why not send Sawyer or Jin. Locke said if he could do it himself he wouldn't be asking Claire. This sounds like when Widmore asked Ben to kill Rousseau and Ben asked the same thing... She looks like she commits to doing the deed, but wants to know Locke will deliver on his promise to give Aaron back to her. This seems like the opposite of the promises Jacob has made to Dogen and Sayid- the loved one can live, but you can't be with them. ??? Mirror images again? But, who's good and who's bad?? Maybe Jacob's asking them to sacrifice for a better cause- the loved one will live? And Unlocke's deals could be more sinister- kill this person and you can be with your loved one? This paints Unlocke as bad, but what he says before the commercial may contradict that. Claire asks are you going to hurt them to which Unlocke answers only those who won't listen- that sounds a bit like my Christianity theory, but I still hesitate to say that Unlocke is a Christ figure. It could just be for selfish gain somehow. Unlocke has said that he always does what he says and he wouldn't have kept Ben, Alpert, Sawyer, etc in the dark and he gave people the choice to leave the temple and live. So, that doesn't seem very bad at all...
When I think about which is good and which is evil- Jacob or Unlocke- I go back to the boy with blood on his hands. Is this telling us Jacob who has blood on his hands (actor is later supposedly identified as such) and is evil or is the young Jacob reminding Unlocke that Unlocke has blood on his hands and will have to pay.
Another thing is that Jacob's followers are telling everyone Unlocke will kill them. He didn't kill Sawyer and he said he felt sorry for Sayid because Sayid probably thought Unolcke wated to kill him courtesy of Dogen and company. More deception of Jacob's side.
Another problem with Jacob being good is that he said it's important for Jack and Hurley to be as far away from the temple as possible. I thought Jacob was protecting them, but Dogen needed exactly those two when Claire said to send "someone he won't kill" to meet Unlocke outside of the temple. Why would Jacob need to protect these two if Unlocke's not going to kill them? One would conclude that Jacob wanted to indirectly cause Smoky to kill a bunch of people in the temple. ?? That's not exactly the actions of a good guy. Or is it? Perhaps we don't want Jack to help Jack realize this thing Jacob wants to push him towards?
Sayid's flash sideways. His brother needs him to "take care of" a dirty loan shark who wants money after the debt was paid. Did the brother make a deal with Keemy that he would have the means to get the second store, but would be in debt for the rest of his life (or the life of the store actually) and didn't like the terms and wants Sayid to fix things as only he can? Sayid offered him the money, so he definitely was asking for a show of force, not money. Going with the obvious, that Sayid's brother isn't violating the terms of an agreement, though, Sayid is given another trade off. He saves his brother, the kids, his love (sister in law) from financial ruin, but he has to turn to the evil he's apparently trying to stay away from. This time, he's making the sacrifice to save people he loves, though, at this point in the flash sideways, he looks like he's not going to do it. In the deal with Ben, he assassinates people to get info to be with his love, Nadia. Interesting that there is a lot about people " knowing who Sayid is" (he's evil?) and Sayid trying to fight that tendency. Sayid's brother comes to him to do the deed because he knows what Sayid did in the war. Nadia asks him not to do what he's thinking about doing in the continuation of the flash sideways. Dogen calls Sayid evil incarnate, but appears to believe he still has the option to choose to tip the balance for the good (by killing Unlocke with the sword before he speaks)- or he does think he's evil and just wants Unlocke to kill him. There is emphasis in the flash sideways on Sayid saying he's not "that man" (evil, torturer, assassin, etc) much like he said after Oceanic crashed and people found out about his Republican Guard past. People ask him to "take care of business" in Sayid fashion in both cases, but both times he seems to reluctantly help them even though it means being "that man" he doesn't want to be. Hmmm.
Sayid is banished from temple after fighting with Dogen.
A favorite line of mine:
"Apparently I'm evil. These people say I'm better off dead, which is surprising
considering they were the ones who saved my life."
"Well, actually," Miles
says, "they're not. They tried to save you, but you were dead, man, for two
hours. Trust me, when you sat up, they were just as surprised as the rest of us.
So whatever brought you back, it wasn't them."
I wonder if Sayid knows he’s not Sayid and he’s just acting confused to fool Miles?
Claire comes in and does the thing for which in return she will get to be with her son- she tells Dogen “he” wants to see you. Unlike Jacob, the favor he asks isn’t killing or doesn’t involve never seeing what you love most- so far.
Dogen tells Claire MIB can come in; Claire said he wants Dogen to go out. Dogen and seemingly Claire know that MIB will kill Dogen if he goes outside the temple. Why? Because of the deal with Jacob? Claire then tells him to send someone he won’t kill.
She’s tossed in a pit, which ironically saves her from Smoky. Looks to be the only way to survive in the temple at the sundown deadline. Claire seems to know she’s safe either because of the pit or something to do with the nod at the very end of the episode. Sayid was fine, too- where was he at sundown- near the pool, right? Or did he get out of the temple before sundown? I thought for sure he had come out after, though.
In response to “send someone he won’t kill,” Dogen asks for Jack and Hurley, who are gone. Sent to the lighthouse by Jacob. Remember Dogen was mad Hurley was poking around and he didn’t die because of protected status as a candidate.
When they can’t be found, suddenly Sayid is needed for the task. This apparently is an effort by Dogen to get Sayid killed. For whatever reason, He thinks MIB will kill him when Sayid goes to “kill” MIB. Why does Dogen not know that the sword isn’t going to work on MIB or that MIB wouldn’t know that he can’t be killed (again) and would feel threatened enough to kill Sayid?? Weird.
It comes up again that Jacob is gone and MIB is free and will kill everyone on the island because he’s evil incarnate.
Sayid’s flash sideways- he finds out his brother is mugged and Nadia begs him not to do what he’s thinking of doing.
Kate goes to the temple, meets Miles who tells her Claire’s there.
Sayid’s in the jungle. Locke steps out and says hello and Sayid stabs him with Dogen’s special knife. Dogen had told him to stab him before he said anything. Is this why he didn’t die? Sayid didn’t say anything before he stabbed Locke, but I’m pretty sure Dogen wanted Locke stabbed before Locke said anything to Sayid. I could be wrong.
Locke takes no offense and gives the knife back. Sayid asks what are you? Without telling him, he asks who they told Sayid Locke is to which the answer is evil incarnate. Hmm. Evasive. Locke tells Sayid that this was an attempt by Dogen to kill Sayid. Is he lying??
Locke expresses disappointment for Sayid being talked into killing Locke so easily. This is similar to Locke saying he’s disappointed in everyone as he passes the real Locke on the beach.
Sayid asks what Locke wants, assuming that’s the reason Locke didn’t kill him. This kind of points to Sayid believing Dogen still. Locke makes the same deal with Sayid as he did Claire, I’m guessing with Nadia. I wonder what and why the difference in the deal – in the flash sideways, Claire is ready to take custody of Aaron since the adoptive parent(s) declined and Kate told her to keep him, etc. Sayid isn’t married to Nadia; they are in-laws, though they clearly care for each other as though they should be married. Was that his choice or a trade off or penance?
Sayid’s flash sideways- Nadia asks why he pushed her to be with his brother when he clearly cares for her. He says he doesn’t deserve her.
Sayid delivers his message just inside the temple as Claire did-
"There is a man in the jungle
about a mile south of us by the outer wall. He sent me back here to give you a
message. He wants you to know that Jacob is dead and because he is gone, none of
you have to stay here any longer. You're free."
"The man that I met is leaving the
island forever. And those of you who want to go with him, should leave the
Temple and join him. You have until sundown to decide."
If they stay at the temple, they’ll die- except if you end up where Claire and Kate did in the hole.
Kate finds Claire and tells her she raised Aaron off the island, but wants to reunite them and she wants to save Claire. Someone drags Kate away and Claire says she’s not the one that needs to be rescued. Claire seemed to accept Kate's explanation that she took Aaron, he's fine, and that everyone thought she was dead- too easily. Or is she just biding her time before she kills her?
People are running out and tall man is upset. Sayid said he delivered the message and people have to decide. When someone tries to stop Cindy and the kids, she says Jacob is dead, so the temple isn’t safe anymore. What about the ash and Dogen? I thought they had to do with a place being “safe”.
Tall man tries to negate Sayid’s message by saying “he” can’t come in. Not very persuasively, I might add. Why should they believe that guy?
Sayid flash sideways - gets in SUV with Keamy and they go to the industrial kitchen. Keamy brings up the mugging, how Sayid wil take care of the family (implying he’s going to kill him?), then the money he says his brother owes. Sayid shoots one guy and threatens Keamy. Keamy says ok, his brother owes nothing and Sayid shoots him anyway. Sayid them finds a Korean only speaking Jin in the walk in fridge. (???) Was Jin delivering the watch to Keamy? Did his father-in-law send him there to get killed? Was Jin to deliver a payment to Keamy, but he didn’t have it because of the airport detention and confiscation?
Dogen knows Sayid let Locke talk to him because he couldn’t kill him. Sayid said that he stabbed first then let him talk, which isn’t quite true. Sayid then confronts Dogen about the two indirect attempts on his life. As always when confronted with the “why didn’t you kill him yourself” question, there is no simple answer. This time, instead of talking about the rules, Dogen tells Sayid about the drunk driving accident where Dogen’s son dies and Jacob makes a deal that the son could live, but Dogen couldn’t see him and has to live on the island with this Temple Master job.
Dogen asks and Sayid confirmed that “the man outside” offered a similar deal.
Interesting bit that Dogen said Jacob offered him a deal... is this different than the Losties getting touched by Jacob at various points in their lives? His son died because he had been drinking and he caused the crash. Jacob offered his son's life back in return for Dogen having a new job and never seeing his son again. Also, he mentions Osaka, not LA, where he lives in the flash sideways. Sayyid confirms MIB offered him a similar deal and that he drives a hard bargain. He could have- he can have Nadia back alive, but he can't be with her and he has to do what Jacob says. MIB seems to offer the better deals, delivering a message in return for getting a loved one back, so this would be a change if Sayyid couldn’t be with Nadia. Perhaps MIB gave him the choice to be with her, but he chose not to because he didn’t deserve her. When the rules prevent people from doing something, they generally say that, but Sayyid said he didn’t deserve her. Or perhaps there are different rules when bringing back someone from the dead rather than Jacob and MIB offering different deals. Maybe you can’t be with the person if you bring them back from the dead because if you did, you’d cause their demise again. (think about the Desmond and Charlie saga where he keeps trying to save him?) Or Sayyid could really be lying and could be Jacob- in which case the driving a hard bargain would be dark humor. One difference is Dogen doesn't appear to be dead and Miles tells Sayyid he is dead. Another is the circumstances of the loved one's death. Dogen was responsible for his son's death. One could say that Dogen should have died. When Nadia died, it was because Jacob got Sayyid's attention in the street. That one never added up to me. He came to other Losties at vulnerable times- told Kate not to steal again, gave Sawyer a pen to write a letter which would avenge his parents' death, said he was sorry this happened to Locke when he was pushed out of the window, but he seemed to nearly directly cause Nadia's death.
Ben also offered a few of these deals. Was he authorized or is this a parallel or an effort to usurp authority? One with Juliet- She had to stay on the island in order to get- I forget what. The sacrifice would be not being there when her sister had the baby - Juliet helped with her lost fertility and won't get to see her sister overcome cancer and be happy with a child she thought she'd never have. She did get to see a video of her and the child at the playground- Alpert was cameraman. Another deal Ben did was with Sayid after the Oceanic 6 got off the island. He had to help Ben (assassinate people for him) in order to get info on where Nadia was so he could be with her. He seems to have a happier ending except for meeting Jacob in the street and Nadia getting killed after only a short time being married (3 mo?).
At sundown, Dogen attempts to stay. Sayid stabs and drowns him. Which thing kills him? Does it matter?
Lenon tells us Dogen was the only on keeping it out. Sayid let it in. Sayid says he knows, stabs Lenon. Yikes! Wow.
Will Dogen and Lenon return (as something/someone else) like Sayid from that temple pool or maybe the correct procedure wasn’t followed…Sayid’s involved a sand timer, if I remember correctly, and drowning him when he came to in the water because the time wasn’t up.
Kate and Miles run when they hear Smoky. Smoky's grabbing people left and right. Miles and Kate split up because Kate wants to get Claire.
Miles runs into Ilana who demands to know where Shephard and Reyes and Ford are and Miles just wants to know who she is. Ilana gets her answer- everyone's gone. Miles sees Frank, Sun, Jin. Miles is confused about Frank. Will we see them "play catch up" later or is this to tell us that it happened?
Ilana then asks about Jarrah. It seems significant that she asks about him separately from Jack Hurley and Sawyer, but isn't Sawyer with Unlocke who is with Sayid and Claire???
Ben offers to get Sayid after hearing he's in the pool room. Ilana appears not to want him to...perhaps because he's evil incarnate?
Kate goes to "rescue" Claire, but Claire won't come, stating that they'll be safer in the hole. ??? Smoky comes, Kate jumps into the hole. Claire seems like she's being pretty nice for a person who wants ot kill the person who raised Aaron...hmm...change of heart or just waiting for the right time?
Ben comes to the pool to "rescue" Sayid. Ben says there's still time and Sayid says "not for me." Probably a significant statement. The darkness has reached his heart and he knows it perhaps?
Ilana, Frank, Miles, and Sun are on their way out of the temple. Sun finally finds out Jin's alive! Yay! I've been waiting for this for awhile. Ilana seems to know about the same way out Jacob gave Hurley, if I remember correctly.
Creepy "Catch a Falling Star" plays. Sayid walks past dead bodies and burning debris. Sayid and Claire look content as they walk out. Kate looks horrified. Unlocke looks a bit puzzled or disappointed to see Kate. Sayid and Claire may look content because they have made good on their end and Unlocke will now let them see Aaron and whomever Sayid oved most--or because they are evil incarnate like Dogen said. Who knows. I don't tend to believe Unlocke is evil because it's too obvious withe the black clothes and all and Jacob's way more deceptive...who knows. It's LOST.
It appears many people made it out. Interesting that the choices were to go out of the Temple and follow Unlocke off the island forever or stay in the temple and die. No choice to stay on the island forever...
Remember when Jack got the tattoo from the Thai woman who told him she could tattoo what she saw in him on his arm, but there would be consequences. In the immediate time, he was beaten. Perhaps the writers were telling us early about these future trade offs and consequences people would face for choices that Ben, Jacob and Unlocke presented?
The spoiler said Smoky rams a guy against a pillar, but Smoky cleaned house. Crazy.
The post-Smoky temple scene reminded me of the spoiler about the village in episode 15 or 16. Interesting...
Didn't Ilana say he was stuck like "that"? I thought that meant Locke, but he can obviosly be Smoky, too. I wouldn't call that stuck. Smoky can do some stuff. Apparently not go into the little hole Claire was in, though! Go figure. Either Ilana doesn't know Smoky is Unlocke or "that" means something else.
The choice given was to stay in the temple (and die) or leave (in order to follow Unlocke off the island) by sundown. It almost reminds me of the choice of the Oceanic 6 to stay on the island or leave. Also, the fact that there was a choice to follow Unlocke or don't and die by the hand of Smoky, sounds a bit like Christianity in that we all have free will and the choice to follow Christ, there being a reward for following and punishment for disobedience. I'm not sure it fits to call Unlocke/MIB a Christ figure, though.
Jacob's list- I like my idea that crossing off means they've accomplished or found their purpose rather than Jacob's killing them off- indirectly- according to some rules. I had a thought, but have to go back and check to see if the list could relate to those who have agreed to stay in the temple or those who have decided to stay out.
In the general scheme of things, I wonder if there is a significance to Christian being on the Oceanic flight in a casket and Locke being in a casket for the Ajira one. Was Jack in charge of checking both? I don't remember how Locke's casket got on there or who was "in charge" of it.
Another general thing- I wonder what the significance of Locke choosing what he did for Alpert's test is. He chose a knife in his 3 things when perhaps he should have chosen the law book? I'm assuming that's why Alpert said there's nothing special about him. Unless Alpert was lying so he could be in charge instead. What if choosing the knife does mean Locke isn't supposed to be the leader or wasn't spposed to be used by MIB? Locke would be a substitute leader as well as a substitute teacher in The Substitute. Hmmm. Maybe the thing Jack has to do is be the leader? In Thailand, the woman who tattoos what she sees in people told him...I'm reaching...but there is that Eastern theme again...
I'm still bugged by why Locke and Unlocke are allowed to exist together, but Christian and Sayyid are dead, but don't have a copy of them- one dead, one inhabited by something (somebody) else.