617/618 The End
So, don’t call me a hater, but I didn’t love the finale. I thought it was enough, though. I’m satisfied. I’m not as mad or anxious for answers as I was during the series. What’s answered is and what isn’t isn’t and I’m ok with that. Maybe I didn’t love it because it is the end of a great show. Or maybe the great mysteries and questions throughout made it impossible for any finale to possibly live up to the phenomena that was LOST.
In this and the previous episode, characters kept saying “we’re near the end” and “it will all be over soon”. Maybe that breaking 4th wall stuff is funny for the writers, but I have to say I didn’t enjoy it in LOST. It’s either a dying fad or it was just wrong or overused in LOST. I liked how Boston Legal broke the 4th wall occasionally. That was funny, but then the show was funnier than LOST was or was supposed to be.
A line that grabbed me was when Locke said Jack didn’t have a son? So… does David exist or doesn’t he? I don’t think so. Crazy! The whole flash sideways is really a nanosecond before one “crosses over” from just dead to eternity, if that’s what one believes. They are dead and there is no “now” as Christian told Jack. Some died before Jack and some after and they are all there together in that nanosecond. But I guess in eternity time isn’t as it is here… Hard to wrap one’s head around. When characters in the flash sideways “remember” the island time line, they realize they are dead and they can see everyone they love or who meant a lot to them, so they get kind of goofy and smiley.
Jack’s ex was… Juliet! Many fans predicted this. I was really thinking it would be Sarah, his wife from the original time line. But if Jack doesn’t really have a son, then giving Jack Juliet is ok. If he did have a son, then having a different wife/mother wouldn’t make sense. Speaking of making sense, if the flash sideways is made up of dead people, how did Keamy die and why is Sawyer concerned with catching dead people (Sayid) murdering dead people? Is that a part of the place they created as Christian said? If I was going to create a place, it wouldn’t have death, murder, injustice, (or justice for that matter), etc, that’s for sure.
Jack in the flash sideways was trying to get Locke to want to have the spinal surgery and get fixed. Jacob brought these people to the island because he thought they were leading pretty sorry lives. On both Jack and Jacob’s part, I thought that was rather judgmental, presumptuous, and wrong. Who are they to intervene in people’s lives to make it turn out how they think it should and not stay out of it and leave it totally up to them? Maybe that wasn’t what I was supposed to take from it. I think I’m supposed to see that the Oceanic 815 people really were better off meeting each other and spending that time together to work out their issues. I can see that, but that’s definitely not the only message, there.
I like that Jack and Locke were betting on Desmond and neither knew which plan would actually work.
I liked Jack’s loophole for killing MIB and how we found out about it- Locke suddenly having blood in his mouth from Jack’s punch (reminded me of Jacob’s pummeling of him). Alpert also was excited when Miles found the gray hair. Nice. I kind of think, though, that maybe the light being out made MIB mortal, but that Jacob’s job changing hands may have released Alpert since they made that deal and he didn’t become immortal when the light came back on.
Hurley’s line in “What They Died For” did mean something! I had thought it meant he was going to be Jacob, but them Jack did and I gave up on it. Hurley said something like – “glad it’s not me” when Jack volunteered to be Jacob’s replacement.
I like how Ben said “that’s how Jacob ran things” when Hurley was distressed about people being confined to the island. Some think the flash sideways are Jack’s way of running things, but I think it’s Hurley’s. Hurley was definitely in the know early on in picking people up to go to the church and Jack didn’t even know he was dead, so I don’t think that was his doing.
The ending in the church. With all the hugging and all the cast there I felt it was more of a goodbye for the benefit of the cast and perhaps fans, but didn’t sit well with me plot-wise. I would have liked to see the cast hugging or taking a bow or whatever in the credits, rather than spending that much time on it in the show. But maybe that’s just me enjoying the series as a whole more than the much anticipated plot resolution.
So, Sayid’s true love is Shannon?? I was a bit disappointed in this. I liked him and Nadia together way better than him and Shannon. I guess there could be reasons it was Shannon, other than she was with the original cast and Nadia wasn’t. ☺ It could be that she was connected to his past as a torturer, the past that convinced him he was evil, so maybe to move on he couldn’t be with her. Or, it could be that the flash sideways is from Hurley’s perspective, so he saw them as good for each other. Kind of like the Jacob thing- he brought them to the island because they had sorry lives… Another thing is that Christian said these are the people most important to them. Maybe that’s really true and not anyone’s judgment.
An interesting tidbit from Geronimo Jack’s Beard on efforts to keep the finale a secret:
The script talked about the church scene as “Sun and Jin’s wedding” and they even had a Sun look-a-like in a wedding dress come around the back of the set. They shuttled the cast around in Santa Rosa vans, too. And even with heroic efforts like those, 6 pages of the script still got out. They were legit, btw.
Showing posts with label Lost. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Lost. Show all posts
Thursday, May 27, 2010
Monday, March 22, 2010
LOST Episode 616: What They Died For/ SPOILERS from the Transmission
Post episode:
Ok, so I am again in the minority. I didn't love the episode. I didn't even like it as much as I liked Across the Sea. I wouldn't call it a comic episode. I did laugh a few times, but it was more disbelief than funny, ha ha. A wild ride? I don't think so. It was ok.
A lot of things were clarified that we already assumed. I do realize they had to set up the last episode, so I'm not saying it was pointless or that I hated it. We did get some classic Ben, not the whipped, scared version.
Jack again notices a cut on his neck in the flash sideways, this time at his house. I think it happened on the airplane last time? Either way, David doesn't pop in on him the first time. Same cut of different one? I didn't get a good look. He has noticed an appendix scar in the flash sideways. What does all of this mean??
I thought we'd get to see or find out who David's mom is when they were talking about his piano concert and his parents were going and Jack wasn't to "act weird" around her. No luck on the mom still! That and the MIB's name- will we find out Sunday?? Will it kill me if we don't? No.
Oceanic calls Jack about his "cargo" and says it will arrive in LA at the end of the day.
It's really Desmond! Nice. What is he planning. Toward the end, he is getting everyone to come to the Widmore's concert event. Is this the concert David is in? I had assumed it was a recital, but LAX and Christian's body wouldn't help Jack reach the other people, so maybe the concert is the Widmore's? Or does he want them all to go to LAX fo rsome reason and Jack will take the more direct route?
Jack is stitching Kate up- like when she stitched him up in Season 1. Nice touch. Also I believe this is a spoiler scene described in a Forward Cabin of The Transmission. They both agree they need ot kill Locke, with Jack adding they need ot get Desmond. A plan. Things are moving.
Desmond's going to run over Locke again?? Noooo! But, Ben intervenes... and gets beaten up by Desmond for it. A scene also described in the Forward Cabin. Ben gets his island vision moment.
Ben is leading Miles and Alpert to his house to get the C4, but he seems to return to the old Ben, not the weak and scared one that we saw when he faced MIB. Miles indicates dead people are buried here- I thought perhaps he was hearing everyone from the Purge along with Alex talking to him or something, but he doesn't say and doesn't even get Alex's thoughts for us. It couldn't have been good, though.
At Ben's secret secret closet, he reveals this was how we was told he could summon Smokey, but he realized it was summoning him. Interesting...
Widmore is strangley calm at the other end of Ben's gun. (In the kitchen) We find that Widmore was the one who rigged the plane. Wasted trip, Ben!
Locke sees Ben in the hospital- he "saw something" while being beaten. His expression is of the old Ben (or Henry Gale with the beating)- did he see what he did, how he killed Alex, etc? He tells Locke that he wasn't trying to hurt him, but to help him let go. I wonder if Locke was at the hospital to see Jack originally (we know he saw at least the button portion of the island life), or did he make the decision about getting fixed when Ben told him that?
Desmond turns himself in to Sawyer and is quite pleased to be locked up with Sayid and Kate.
On their way to find Desmond, Jack and Sawyer talk about the Rules:
S: If Locke wanted Desmond dead, why not kill him himself?
J: Maybe it's one of his rules.
S: Thought he couldn't kill us. (Yeah, what's up with that??)
It was nice to see Sawyer realize Jack may have been right about not touching the bomb. He just wanted to do teh opposite of what Jack said because of Juliet and who wouldn't have done the same, but bad move, Sawyer. I say Sawyer killed those 3.
Hurley sees young Jacob in the jungle. This one's not a weak type, but very commanding and he takes the ashes out of Hurleys' hand. Why the kid form? Jacob didn't want him to know it was him??? Suddenly there is old Jacob, as though he needed those ashes so that everyone could see him (later) and to put himself to rest for good? He says that
***
Leaked screenplay of the last two LOST episodes!!! Is it real or not? I don't know. Is it fun? Yes.
http://www.macchianera.net/2010/05/01/scoop-macchianera-pubblica-6-pagine-della-puntata-finale-di-lost/#pages-call
***
Description:
(From ABC Television Network) While Locke devises a new strategy, Jack's group searches for Desmond.
***
Analucia and young Rousseau are in this episode?? Crazy. And more flash sideways? We will find out if that leaked script is legit or somebody's big joke!
Guest Cast:
***
From The Transmission: Across the Sea - also see Mar 21 and 28 episodes of podcast
These are just a few clues from the viewing of this episode that was done not long ago:
Actor readings from message in a bottle (?)
One of the top episodes (that's said of a lot of them!), amazing, satisfying.
LOST's comic episode. People were laughing a lot? I don't know if I like that.
Laughter, shock, sadness were expressed in the crowd.
Coincidences revealed (comicly), deadpan dialogue, winks and nods to the fans (don't know if I love those...), soon to be classic LOST lines..
Good pace, many characters.
"When a certain character was shown on screen it elicited a collective groan from the audience, eventually followed by outright cheering."
Ending was anticipatory. (Figures)
Wild and highly enjoyable ride.
***
Part 1 of the Finale? Or the episode before the finale?
A fan sighting says Jack and Kate were lying on the beach and Hurley was sitting on a crate. Kate had an ipod, though, so it may have been just them resting rather than filming? Of course this is from The Transmission- see sidebar.
Zoe will play a big role in this episode or part 2, whichever is the last one.
*** *** ***
The Transmission LOST podcast: Forward Cabin from Ab Aeterno edition
Probably the last week of filming? This is a rough copy. There hasn't been much editing and I haven't had a chance ot comment...
I apologize for the butchering of the spelling of Hawaiian locations! Here is a transcription of sorts:
RYAN: "On Monday the 22nd, they were still at Waikanae, this is by the pier again, north of Kooaloa. This is where they were at the end of last week and again they were well out of sight. I can say that at the trailers the folks did spot Kate and Hurley and Sawyer. And specifically noted that Kate seemed to have some kind of injury or blood on her left shoulder, but that's pretty much it for that day. Thanks to Jan as well as Francie for that report."
"The next day, the 23rd, it was Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley, but they were filming on the beach. Now, interestingly enough, they covered the sand up with boxes and life jackets and again things that kind of looked like the results of a shipwreck of some kind and they were all sort of staring out at the ocean."
"In the scene, Jack basically goes down near the water to pick up a backpack and he opens it up. He then goes to the other three. He tells them something and starts walking away and they all follow him."
"Later, a separate scene was Jack and Kate filming alone on the beach. Now first they were having a conversation, but then Jack was on his knees, basically bending over Kate, who was kind of lying down or against a log and he was basically doing something that wasn't clear, but it looked like he was sewing up a wound. Basically sewing up an injury that Kate had. And that kind of jives with an earlier report and is a nice parallel of Kate sewing up Jack in teh pilot episode. And thanks to Francie for that report."
"Now Wednesday was a fun day- or not. They were at Judd Trail. That's a very popular filming location. Now, interestingly enough, for the last week, Judd Trail, that location was being used for another production. It's a George Clooney movie. It's being called The Descendants. I'd been so used to people calling me and saying, "Hey, I think LOST is there and it took me awhile to baiscally figure out it was them. So when I heard there was, yes, film crew working at Judd Trail, that oh, that's probbaly George Clooney and his buddies. Unfortunately it was not. It was LOST, but nobody went to see. But I can tell you there was a jungle scene on Wednesday."
"Now on Thursday, it was an interesting day. They were down in Waikiki. And interestingly enough they revisited and rebuilt a set or a location from the past. It was the Flightline Motel. That was Locke's motel basically where he lived near the airport. We saw the Oceanic plane fly over. And where he basically tried at the last minute to propose to Helen and got shot down. So I thought that was interesting. It was Locke's motel, but nobody saw any fiiming. But spotted on the scene was Hurley's yellow Hummer. So, I'm not sure if Locke's involved, but Hurley was definitely involved in a scene at the Flightline Motel near the airport. And I do want to thank Steven for that report."
They were also on that day supposedly seen at Sacret Hearts Academy, that's on Waiaili, but unfortunately that report came in well after the fact. I do want to thank Eric for letting me know. "Now Sacred Hearts Academy has been a location before as well. The exterior was the exterior of the church under which the Lamp Post was hidden, so maybe that was it? The church right next door was also the church where Christian Shephard's funeral as held. So maybe they were using that location. No way to know, but that's where they were. I just share what I have. "
"Now Friday it gets more interesting. They were at Rehab Hospital of the Pacific that's on Kuakini Street, up in Nuauno Valley. The scene included Sawyer and Juliet. So, yes, Elizabeth Mitchell back in town. Back working and for whatever reason at that set. Now again we don't know if it was actually a hospital or if it was playing something else. I guess we're going to see. According to a guard there were also scenes with Kate and Jack as well."
"That same day they were also out at Police Beach. That's the famous beach camp once again. And for that scene, Claire, Miles and Lapidus were at work. And in the scene, Claire comes out of the bushes with a rifle, and, well, unfortunately everybody got moved off the beach at that point. But certainly at some point there was a shot fired in that scene."
"And finally, that day, still Friday, they moved down the beach to near the Ajira plane once again. And actually they set up rain machines, so it sounds like another sudden storm. And in that scene at the plane, Miles and Lapidus once again. Not sure if Claire stuck around for that. And I do want to thank Billy and Francie for their reports."
"On Saturday, actually that's today, as we record this podcast, they were again back at the base camp which is parked along Nuananu Avenue and this is where they've been for the scenes that I just mentioned filming at the Rehab Hospital and a number of actors were sighted there. They include: the actors for Locke, Jin, Sun, Sawyer, Claire, Kate, Desmond and Juliet. Yes, Elizabeth Mitchel back in town working again. Now, what makes this interesting is that was again the base camp for the hospital shooting, but there was also a shoot today downtown Honolulu at O'Toole's which is an Irish bar right there on Merchant Street. Also a previous LOST location."
JEN: "That's where Desmond was thwhacked in the head."
RYAN: "Right. It was Desmond's bar. Although I'm presuming they're not in London in this case. In any case they've been there before. But since they were in two locations along Nuananu Avenue, the actors that I just listed, we're not entirely sure which scene or which location they were necessarily working at. They could be at either. We can say that at least at the trailers Kate, curiously enough, was dressed in a robe or maybe a hospital gown. So that was kind of curious. And perhaps she's in the hospital scene."
"But, let's move back downtown again to O'Toole's. They were basically setting up for a stunt or fight scene for Sayid, so Sayid was there, Naveen Andrews as well as Jorge Garcia or Hurley and his yellow Hummer of course omnipresent, now it seems in that scene. And basically what seems to happen is that a bunch of men are having a brawl or a fight on the sidewalk there and Sayid jumps out of Hurley's Hummer and basically gets involved. And he fights with a dark haired man. And perhaps most curiously also on that scene toward the end, Shannon turns up. Yes, Boone's sister, or I guess better said Sayid's on island love interest turns up. She was dressed a little, shall we say, ..."
JEN: "...provocatively?"
RYAN: "...provocatively in that scene. Maybe she was the cause for the brawl and perhaps Sayid gets involved to come to the rescue. I don't know, that's kind of an interesting development for Shannon to turn up and for Sayid to be in the scene, but certainly a resolution I think that a lot of people are hoping for or imagining in their head. "
"And a late report just in that they were filming at a church I'm not sure where. This comes in by text message, but there was a church scene as well because they had extras they were all dressed up as if they were going to, say, a wedding, which would be kind of cool because we're looking for the Locke and Helen wedding perhaps. But it could also be unfortunately, a funeral. And as we've learned on LOST, the wardrobe and locations for both of those events are essentially the same, so we're going to have ot wait and see if we get more details, there. That's just hot off the presses. I do want to thank Wanda for her report, going down and checking it out, and again Francie."
"Now that's the shoots for this week, and certainly I think there's quite a bit to chew on, but I did want ot share one last tidbit that actually comes from an earlier shoot because it was at the Rehab Hospital, the one where they were filming this week, but this was several weeks ago. And as I reported on out podcast, that scene involved Locke and Jack as well and Helen. And now I'm getting basically details on what was gong on at that time. In that earlier scene, Locke was at the hospital because he got injured, and we're presuming that that's the car accident that we also reported on. But he's in the hospital and Jack is there because he happens to be there making his rounds. He wasn't specifically there to see Locke, but he does indeed get into a conversation with Locke to try and get him to take him up on the offer for that free consult that he mentioned at the beginning of the season. And of course Locke was resistant to that. In this scene, he tells Lcoke that you have to have faith. So, a neat little tidbit of dialogue from another scene at that same hospital where it seems everybody is starting to converge and come together. And I do want to thank Billy for his report there as well. So, that's it for the Forward Cabin."
Ok, so I am again in the minority. I didn't love the episode. I didn't even like it as much as I liked Across the Sea. I wouldn't call it a comic episode. I did laugh a few times, but it was more disbelief than funny, ha ha. A wild ride? I don't think so. It was ok.
A lot of things were clarified that we already assumed. I do realize they had to set up the last episode, so I'm not saying it was pointless or that I hated it. We did get some classic Ben, not the whipped, scared version.
Jack again notices a cut on his neck in the flash sideways, this time at his house. I think it happened on the airplane last time? Either way, David doesn't pop in on him the first time. Same cut of different one? I didn't get a good look. He has noticed an appendix scar in the flash sideways. What does all of this mean??
I thought we'd get to see or find out who David's mom is when they were talking about his piano concert and his parents were going and Jack wasn't to "act weird" around her. No luck on the mom still! That and the MIB's name- will we find out Sunday?? Will it kill me if we don't? No.
Oceanic calls Jack about his "cargo" and says it will arrive in LA at the end of the day.
It's really Desmond! Nice. What is he planning. Toward the end, he is getting everyone to come to the Widmore's concert event. Is this the concert David is in? I had assumed it was a recital, but LAX and Christian's body wouldn't help Jack reach the other people, so maybe the concert is the Widmore's? Or does he want them all to go to LAX fo rsome reason and Jack will take the more direct route?
Jack is stitching Kate up- like when she stitched him up in Season 1. Nice touch. Also I believe this is a spoiler scene described in a Forward Cabin of The Transmission. They both agree they need ot kill Locke, with Jack adding they need ot get Desmond. A plan. Things are moving.
Desmond's going to run over Locke again?? Noooo! But, Ben intervenes... and gets beaten up by Desmond for it. A scene also described in the Forward Cabin. Ben gets his island vision moment.
Ben is leading Miles and Alpert to his house to get the C4, but he seems to return to the old Ben, not the weak and scared one that we saw when he faced MIB. Miles indicates dead people are buried here- I thought perhaps he was hearing everyone from the Purge along with Alex talking to him or something, but he doesn't say and doesn't even get Alex's thoughts for us. It couldn't have been good, though.
At Ben's secret secret closet, he reveals this was how we was told he could summon Smokey, but he realized it was summoning him. Interesting...
Widmore is strangley calm at the other end of Ben's gun. (In the kitchen) We find that Widmore was the one who rigged the plane. Wasted trip, Ben!
Locke sees Ben in the hospital- he "saw something" while being beaten. His expression is of the old Ben (or Henry Gale with the beating)- did he see what he did, how he killed Alex, etc? He tells Locke that he wasn't trying to hurt him, but to help him let go. I wonder if Locke was at the hospital to see Jack originally (we know he saw at least the button portion of the island life), or did he make the decision about getting fixed when Ben told him that?
Desmond turns himself in to Sawyer and is quite pleased to be locked up with Sayid and Kate.
On their way to find Desmond, Jack and Sawyer talk about the Rules:
S: If Locke wanted Desmond dead, why not kill him himself?
J: Maybe it's one of his rules.
S: Thought he couldn't kill us. (Yeah, what's up with that??)
It was nice to see Sawyer realize Jack may have been right about not touching the bomb. He just wanted to do teh opposite of what Jack said because of Juliet and who wouldn't have done the same, but bad move, Sawyer. I say Sawyer killed those 3.
Hurley sees young Jacob in the jungle. This one's not a weak type, but very commanding and he takes the ashes out of Hurleys' hand. Why the kid form? Jacob didn't want him to know it was him??? Suddenly there is old Jacob, as though he needed those ashes so that everyone could see him (later) and to put himself to rest for good? He says that
***
Leaked screenplay of the last two LOST episodes!!! Is it real or not? I don't know. Is it fun? Yes.
http://www.macchianera.net/2010/05/01/scoop-macchianera-pubblica-6-pagine-della-puntata-finale-di-lost/#pages-call
***
Description:
(From ABC Television Network) While Locke devises a new strategy, Jack's group searches for Desmond.
***
Analucia and young Rousseau are in this episode?? Crazy. And more flash sideways? We will find out if that leaked script is legit or somebody's big joke!
Guest Cast:
- Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond Hume
- Michelle Rodriguez as Ana-Lucia Cortez
- Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau
- Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
- Tania Raymonde as Alex
- Mark Pellegrino as Jacob
- Dylan Minnette as David
- Sheila Kelley as Zoe
- Kenton Duty as teenage boy
- Wendy Pearson as Nurse Kondracki
- Ashlee Kyker as student (apparently she has the last name as a prop guy on LOST?)
- Ernesto Lopez as LAPD cop.
***
From The Transmission: Across the Sea - also see Mar 21 and 28 episodes of podcast
These are just a few clues from the viewing of this episode that was done not long ago:
Actor readings from message in a bottle (?)
One of the top episodes (that's said of a lot of them!), amazing, satisfying.
LOST's comic episode. People were laughing a lot? I don't know if I like that.
Laughter, shock, sadness were expressed in the crowd.
Coincidences revealed (comicly), deadpan dialogue, winks and nods to the fans (don't know if I love those...), soon to be classic LOST lines..
Good pace, many characters.
"When a certain character was shown on screen it elicited a collective groan from the audience, eventually followed by outright cheering."
Ending was anticipatory. (Figures)
Wild and highly enjoyable ride.
***
Part 1 of the Finale? Or the episode before the finale?
A fan sighting says Jack and Kate were lying on the beach and Hurley was sitting on a crate. Kate had an ipod, though, so it may have been just them resting rather than filming? Of course this is from The Transmission- see sidebar.
Zoe will play a big role in this episode or part 2, whichever is the last one.
*** *** ***
The Transmission LOST podcast: Forward Cabin from Ab Aeterno edition
Probably the last week of filming? This is a rough copy. There hasn't been much editing and I haven't had a chance ot comment...
I apologize for the butchering of the spelling of Hawaiian locations! Here is a transcription of sorts:
RYAN: "On Monday the 22nd, they were still at Waikanae, this is by the pier again, north of Kooaloa. This is where they were at the end of last week and again they were well out of sight. I can say that at the trailers the folks did spot Kate and Hurley and Sawyer. And specifically noted that Kate seemed to have some kind of injury or blood on her left shoulder, but that's pretty much it for that day. Thanks to Jan as well as Francie for that report."
"The next day, the 23rd, it was Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley, but they were filming on the beach. Now, interestingly enough, they covered the sand up with boxes and life jackets and again things that kind of looked like the results of a shipwreck of some kind and they were all sort of staring out at the ocean."
"In the scene, Jack basically goes down near the water to pick up a backpack and he opens it up. He then goes to the other three. He tells them something and starts walking away and they all follow him."
"Later, a separate scene was Jack and Kate filming alone on the beach. Now first they were having a conversation, but then Jack was on his knees, basically bending over Kate, who was kind of lying down or against a log and he was basically doing something that wasn't clear, but it looked like he was sewing up a wound. Basically sewing up an injury that Kate had. And that kind of jives with an earlier report and is a nice parallel of Kate sewing up Jack in teh pilot episode. And thanks to Francie for that report."
"Now Wednesday was a fun day- or not. They were at Judd Trail. That's a very popular filming location. Now, interestingly enough, for the last week, Judd Trail, that location was being used for another production. It's a George Clooney movie. It's being called The Descendants. I'd been so used to people calling me and saying, "Hey, I think LOST is there and it took me awhile to baiscally figure out it was them. So when I heard there was, yes, film crew working at Judd Trail, that oh, that's probbaly George Clooney and his buddies. Unfortunately it was not. It was LOST, but nobody went to see. But I can tell you there was a jungle scene on Wednesday."
"Now on Thursday, it was an interesting day. They were down in Waikiki. And interestingly enough they revisited and rebuilt a set or a location from the past. It was the Flightline Motel. That was Locke's motel basically where he lived near the airport. We saw the Oceanic plane fly over. And where he basically tried at the last minute to propose to Helen and got shot down. So I thought that was interesting. It was Locke's motel, but nobody saw any fiiming. But spotted on the scene was Hurley's yellow Hummer. So, I'm not sure if Locke's involved, but Hurley was definitely involved in a scene at the Flightline Motel near the airport. And I do want to thank Steven for that report."
They were also on that day supposedly seen at Sacret Hearts Academy, that's on Waiaili, but unfortunately that report came in well after the fact. I do want to thank Eric for letting me know. "Now Sacred Hearts Academy has been a location before as well. The exterior was the exterior of the church under which the Lamp Post was hidden, so maybe that was it? The church right next door was also the church where Christian Shephard's funeral as held. So maybe they were using that location. No way to know, but that's where they were. I just share what I have. "
"Now Friday it gets more interesting. They were at Rehab Hospital of the Pacific that's on Kuakini Street, up in Nuauno Valley. The scene included Sawyer and Juliet. So, yes, Elizabeth Mitchell back in town. Back working and for whatever reason at that set. Now again we don't know if it was actually a hospital or if it was playing something else. I guess we're going to see. According to a guard there were also scenes with Kate and Jack as well."
"That same day they were also out at Police Beach. That's the famous beach camp once again. And for that scene, Claire, Miles and Lapidus were at work. And in the scene, Claire comes out of the bushes with a rifle, and, well, unfortunately everybody got moved off the beach at that point. But certainly at some point there was a shot fired in that scene."
"And finally, that day, still Friday, they moved down the beach to near the Ajira plane once again. And actually they set up rain machines, so it sounds like another sudden storm. And in that scene at the plane, Miles and Lapidus once again. Not sure if Claire stuck around for that. And I do want to thank Billy and Francie for their reports."
"On Saturday, actually that's today, as we record this podcast, they were again back at the base camp which is parked along Nuananu Avenue and this is where they've been for the scenes that I just mentioned filming at the Rehab Hospital and a number of actors were sighted there. They include: the actors for Locke, Jin, Sun, Sawyer, Claire, Kate, Desmond and Juliet. Yes, Elizabeth Mitchel back in town working again. Now, what makes this interesting is that was again the base camp for the hospital shooting, but there was also a shoot today downtown Honolulu at O'Toole's which is an Irish bar right there on Merchant Street. Also a previous LOST location."
JEN: "That's where Desmond was thwhacked in the head."
RYAN: "Right. It was Desmond's bar. Although I'm presuming they're not in London in this case. In any case they've been there before. But since they were in two locations along Nuananu Avenue, the actors that I just listed, we're not entirely sure which scene or which location they were necessarily working at. They could be at either. We can say that at least at the trailers Kate, curiously enough, was dressed in a robe or maybe a hospital gown. So that was kind of curious. And perhaps she's in the hospital scene."
"But, let's move back downtown again to O'Toole's. They were basically setting up for a stunt or fight scene for Sayid, so Sayid was there, Naveen Andrews as well as Jorge Garcia or Hurley and his yellow Hummer of course omnipresent, now it seems in that scene. And basically what seems to happen is that a bunch of men are having a brawl or a fight on the sidewalk there and Sayid jumps out of Hurley's Hummer and basically gets involved. And he fights with a dark haired man. And perhaps most curiously also on that scene toward the end, Shannon turns up. Yes, Boone's sister, or I guess better said Sayid's on island love interest turns up. She was dressed a little, shall we say, ..."
JEN: "...provocatively?"
RYAN: "...provocatively in that scene. Maybe she was the cause for the brawl and perhaps Sayid gets involved to come to the rescue. I don't know, that's kind of an interesting development for Shannon to turn up and for Sayid to be in the scene, but certainly a resolution I think that a lot of people are hoping for or imagining in their head. "
"And a late report just in that they were filming at a church I'm not sure where. This comes in by text message, but there was a church scene as well because they had extras they were all dressed up as if they were going to, say, a wedding, which would be kind of cool because we're looking for the Locke and Helen wedding perhaps. But it could also be unfortunately, a funeral. And as we've learned on LOST, the wardrobe and locations for both of those events are essentially the same, so we're going to have ot wait and see if we get more details, there. That's just hot off the presses. I do want to thank Wanda for her report, going down and checking it out, and again Francie."
"Now that's the shoots for this week, and certainly I think there's quite a bit to chew on, but I did want ot share one last tidbit that actually comes from an earlier shoot because it was at the Rehab Hospital, the one where they were filming this week, but this was several weeks ago. And as I reported on out podcast, that scene involved Locke and Jack as well and Helen. And now I'm getting basically details on what was gong on at that time. In that earlier scene, Locke was at the hospital because he got injured, and we're presuming that that's the car accident that we also reported on. But he's in the hospital and Jack is there because he happens to be there making his rounds. He wasn't specifically there to see Locke, but he does indeed get into a conversation with Locke to try and get him to take him up on the offer for that free consult that he mentioned at the beginning of the season. And of course Locke was resistant to that. In this scene, he tells Lcoke that you have to have faith. So, a neat little tidbit of dialogue from another scene at that same hospital where it seems everybody is starting to converge and come together. And I do want to thank Billy for his report there as well. So, that's it for the Forward Cabin."
LOST Episode 515: Across the Sea- SPOILERS
Edit May 2010: LOST spoilers - 6 pages of leaked LOST screenplay!! No idea if they are real or fake. The blog is in Italian, the script pages below it are of course in English.
http://www.macchianera.net/2010/05/01/scoop-macchianera-pubblica-6-pagine-della-puntata-finale-di-lost/#pages-call
I think this is the Jacob and MIB history with the previously discussed spoilers I heard on the Transmission with them having conversations between themselves and one talks to his mother and another talks to a woman who killed his mother. Same actor that played the boy with blood on his hands plays young Jacob.
There were more spoilers from The Transmission podcast- the one for "Recon." They mentioned tighter security as we get to these last episodes- they are filming 15-finale now I guess. There were more so and so seen leaving set sighting than juicy bits at the end.
I don't know if they are all for episode 15, but that's the earliest episode they could be from...
On Judd (?) trail among the bamboo, Jacob is wearing a light color outfit with a ruffled collar shirt and MIB's wearing a brown tunic and shorts. Jacob's got MIB in a headlock and MIB looks pretty beat up.
Given what we saw in Ab Aeterno, Jacob has beat more people up than I thought. It doesn't really fit with him being the "good one," but we don't know the whole story.
At a resort with a beach cove, Kate's with Sawyer who has a rifle. Wonder what's going on? Are they talking about leaving the island together or is romance in the air?
Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, Claire, Sun and maybe Frank are on a boat and Jack and Sawyer have a confrontation. Pretty predictable. I hope they're not talking about Kate. Are they talking about escape or who's camp to join?
On the windward side of the island there are scenes filmed that convey several years. A pregnant woman with dark curly hair and a long brown dress limped away from the beach. Then and 10-13 year old boy in black runs ot the water to get a silver box and carries it inland. Is it the temple dagger?
Young Jacob and young MIB play backgammon in the trees. The woman with curly hair (no longer pregnant of course) in a coral dress calls out ot them. MIB jumps up, brushes himself off and goes to her.
One fan spoke with a crew member. The crew has been known to give red herrings, so don't know how one hsould take this...
He/she said the sub sinks and fills with water, Kate is thrown around, Desmond tries to save Analucia much like he did Charlie.
On March 9 they were at Waikiki at the Lotus Hotel (that's where Sawyer and Charlotte had their date). Jack and Widmore were there. A pregnant Claire and also David, Jack's son, were seen leaving the set. Wonder what that's about. I thought there wasn't going to be much going back in time... beyond Richard and the Jacob/MIB thing.
They were at the school- stunt doubles were there. Desmond begins beating Desmond up- what's that about?? Locke in the wheelchair was in the parking lot, but didn't do anything.
There is a Ben and Alex scene. Ben's arm is in a sling. It's after school with the school bus and cars picking up kids. A blue car comes up, Danielle gets out, Alex introduces Ben to her mom. Ben is flustered and drops his papers, they offer Ben a ride, and he gets in the car. Ben likes Danielle?? Wow. What if he becomes her stepdad and is "destined" to be a father figure to her.
Macrh 11- New Otherton- several scenes.
Miles, Ben and Richard are carrying guns, enter camp, pass picket fence where the swing set was supposed to be. Miles senses something, touches the ground, talks to Ben who looks down at the ground for awhile, Ben says something to Miles and they keep walking. I wonder if Miles heard Alex or Ben's dad or if we will know the final thoughts of one of them?
In a second scene, Ben and Unlocke talkin front of the cabin.
In a third scene, Richard is walking around by himself (bad sign...) looking around nervously when something hits him and knocks him to the ground. Oh no! Smokey!? Not Alpert! This doesn't look good for him. The last scene of the day was supposedly all camera work, a lot of quick movements, so it seems like it was a Smokey-cam (POV) or something.
March 12. Jack and Locke are on the beach. There is a scene with Claire and Locke and a canoe where Locke is trying ot get her to get in and she resists, but eentually get in the canoe together.
Last week (week of March 22?). There are crates and life vests washing up on shore. Maybe from a boat or sub wreck? Jack, Kate and Hurley were seen.
Thursday- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, old and young Jacob seen leaving the set.
Friday- Hurley and Jacob
Michelle Roderiguez is in town "this" week. "This week" equals the week of The Transmission's "Recon" hash/re-hash. So that crew member may have been giving real info?? Still didn't make sense. I'm more eager to see how this all comes together- or what comes together and what doesn't. :)
**************************************************
Post episode:
615 Across The Sea
A lot of people weren’t fond of this one. I actually liked it. I’ve been dying for more on Jacob and MIB and jungle boy that this scratched and itch somewhat. Ab Aeterno was by far the better of the flash backs and flash way backs, though. Anyway, I think that regardless of whether MIB is evil or not, he has good reason to be. He was deceived and manipulated all his life and lost his real mother. And rather than being strong and all knowing, we see Jacob as (he really is???) a weakling who was born to follow. Or is he the most good and forgiving person on earth? But he seems a bit dull, not the sharpest tool in the shed, not just docile or forgiving.
Are we to take from this that MIB is justified in what he is doing in the present time or that he chose the evil path of vengeance and Jacob chose the good path of peace and forgiveness?
Opening shipwreck is like the Losties arriving on shore after the sub sinking.
No name for MIB! Still! Doesn’t have one or we don’t know name?
Jacob and MIB are born on the island to a very pregnant, shipwrecked mom. Aaron was in the same situation an born on the island. WIll that mean anything? He was taken by The Others, but only temporarily (did they do a Dogen style test?), unlike the twins' mom and Mother situation. Kate ended up taking Aaron off the island, though, so he still got taken like the boys. All three were raised by another. MIB makes the comparison of crazy moms with Mother and Claire an adoptive and real mom, but he still identified with Aaron. MIB said the cause of his issues was being raised by a crazy mom, not being raised by another, interestingly.
Jacob and MIB are brothers! A reveal. I forgot to add this at first. I guess I had been leaning that way anyway. But, are they Cain and Able, or Jacob and Esau, or Benjamin and the rest of Jacob's children, or Romulus and Remus, etc. One innocent, one deceitful; one who is content to trust, the other who knows the truth and takes action; the firstborn Jacob gets the job, but MIB was favored; Jacob draws blood and makes MIB worse than dead, but MIB kills Mother.
Jacob is more than just a momma’s boy, he’s got no spine or personality really. We thought he was all knowing all powerful, but really, he’s just the equivalent of a clone or robot or something. I wonder if he’s being inhabited like Sayyid. The exchange where Mother says “Do you love me, Jacob? (Yes) Then tell me what happened,” is where we get that first glimpse. And he seems a bit dumb in the encounter with the boar and other men- he’s all loud and BIB has to shush him. A different picture of Jacob for sure.
“Jacob doesn't know how to lie. He's not like you.” BIB is special because he can lie? That doesn’t sound good. The keeper of the light has to be a good liar? With Jacob as the keeper, we have thought that was a good and righteous position, but it sounds as though Mother is not so good, what with the murder of the boys’ mother and all the lying. There’s always the question of the greater good- we don’t know for sure she’s not doing that for good reason, but it sure looks bad. Something I have thought about MIB since we met him.
BIB asks what’s dead. Mother says, “something you will never have to worry about.”
Sounds like she gave him the gift of living forever, like Jacob gave Alpert. BIB didn’t ask for it, though. What’s up with that being no problem and bringing people back to life is a no go? Does she have this “gift”? Did she give it to Jacob as well (before drinking the cup at the light)?
Teenage Jacob is the boy in the jungle. What’s up with teenage Jacob showing up to MIB in the present?? Still don’t get that.
Mother says: "They're not like us. They don't belong here. We are here for a reason."
BIB wants to know the reason and she says it’s not time yet.
Sounds like Widmore talking about timing with the testing, etc.
We assume the reason, though, is to protect the light which we see in the next scene. Maybe time had passed and it was time? Or was she not supposed to reveal the light until time for her to pass on guardianship and her doing so early is what caused some deaths later and the worse than death of MIB?
Mother says (when boys find they aren’t the only ones) : "The same thing that makes all men dangerous. They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same."
Sounds like what MIB tells Jacob or Alpert.
She has constructed a different reality for them- it makes me think of Shamalan’s The Village. But, then so did the things the Others or Dharma would say from time to time… In any case, her lies (or truths?) about the men on the other side of the island are the same
Ben’s choice as a boy to go with the others or the hostiles is kind of a parallel to MIB’s choice to go “home.” Ben saw his mother and that seemed to make him want to leave the Dharma camp. Was that a ghost or MIB or Smokey or what?
"Does that mean that we can hurt each other?" Teenager in Black asks.
The woman stops and takes off their blindfolds. "I've made it so you can never hurt each other."
How did she do that?
I felt a bit let down about the light in the cave. Is that really what this is about? Really? And it looked a little cheesy, too. ☹
"Light. The warmest, brightest light you've ever seen or felt. And we must make sure that no one ever finds it." (This was also super cheesy for me)
"It's beautiful." BIB says.
"Yes it is, and that's why they want it. Because a little bit of this very same light is in every man. But they always want more."
"Can they take it?" Jacob asks.
"No, but they will try. And if they try, they can put it out. And if the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. And so I've protected this place, but I can't protect if forever."
"Then who will?"
"It will have to be one of you."
Jacob’s the island is a cork thing doesn’t really hold true. Did Jacob learn to lie?
They are playing the game, senet, backgammon precursor.
"You can't do that, Jacob."
"Why not?"
"Because it's against the rules."
"You made the rules."
"I found it. One day, you'll find your own game and everyone else will have to follow your rules." (Did Jacob "find" the game he's playing with real people as pawns? Is he making the rules to this game his mom forced him to "play"?)
Teenager in Black sees Claudia over Jacob's shoulder. She says, "It's alright, don't be afraid."
Jacob turns, but doesn't see anything. "What?"
"I'm going to take a walk on the beach. I'll meet you later."
He runs down to the creek and sees her standing there. "Hello," she says.
"Why can't Jacob see you?"
"Because I'm dead. Will you come with me? I'd like to show you something."
(It seems it’s not just the lying that makes BIB different?)
"Show me what?"
"Where you come from. Across the island. A place you've never seen."
BIB tries to get Jacob to come with him to the other side of the island to live with their people. Jacob sticks by Mother and beats up BIB. Can they really not hurt each other? Or just not kill each other? Or is that a lie? Mother is a pretty big liar….
That was the scene described in the forward Cabin on The Transmission that intrigued me so much.
Mother holds Teenager in Black and says, "My love, you need to know this. Whatever you have been told, you will never be able to leave this island."
"That's not true. And one day, I can prove it!" He picks up his stuff, looks at Jacob, and then walks away.
Is that what MIB’s deal is? Does he just want to prove he can get off the island? Or is it Jacob who just wants to prove there is good in everyone and that all people aren’t corruptible? Either way, both seem to think anything goes to prove their point.
Mother admits to killing Jacob’s real mom with no real reaction by Jacob and Jacob seems to know Mother favors BIB. She insists she needs Jacob to stay in order to “stay good.” Does she know she is corrupted and that’s why she needs to find a replacement guardian of the light?
Mother never asks about MIB. I wonder is she “just knows” about him because they are good liars and alike somehow. Does she see dead people, too? I wonder if Jacob always spilled the beans or if she knew before he told on BIB.
MIB tells Jacob Mother was right about the people being greedy and manipulative, but Jacob isn’t so sure. Weird. He ends up bringing people to the island continually, which Mother probably wouldn't have been happy about. Did he end up changing the rules to defy Mother in a less bloody and overt way than MIB?
Mother knocks out MIB? Is it against the rules for her to kill him, too?
When Mother finds that people know about the light and are about to use it to get off the island, she determines it’s time to hand off her guardianship to Jacob. She made a point of telling Jacob she “said goodbye” to MIB. Did she know she was going to die?
At the light:
"You're going to protect it now." She hands him the torch and sits on a log.
"What's down there?" he asks.
"Life. Death. Rebirth. It's the source, the heart of the island."
He sits next to her. She says, "Just promise me, whatever you do, you will never go down there."
"Would I die?"
"It'd be worse than dying, Jacob, much worse." She pulls out a wine bottle and pours some liquid into a cup and chants over it. She offers him the cup. "Here, drink this."
"What happens if I do?"
"You accept the responsibility, that you will protect this place for as long as you can, and then you'll have to find your replacement."
She says “it has to be you Jacob.” (Didn’t Sayid say that to Jack or something last episode?)
Mother didn't give him a choice. Jacob seems intent on giving people a choice and not interfering (sort of). Sometimes his choices aren't great either way, though, so he could be like Mother not giving him a choice.
Mother also said he'd realize he was the one and she 's not just making him do it because he's all she's got left. This reminds me of MIB saying he'd find a way off the island, you'll see. I think Jacob realized it, but MIB hasn't gotten off yet. Hmmm...
When he drinks the cup, Mother says she and him are the same. What does that mean, exactly? I thought MIB was more like her, so are Jacob and MIB alike? If she was corrupted, did she think MIB was the one because they were liars, etc but really Jacob, the good one was more like her before?
The idea of finding a replacement to protect the light is like in the hatch, replacements were sent to keep pushing the button. Both Desmond and Jacob were unwilling participants. Desmond did something to end the need for his job. Will Jacob?
Mother burns MIB’s village. How does she do that? Can she summon Smokey like Ben? He retrieves his game, then stabs Mother as she looks at the black stone. She thanks him...for killing her? That sounds like Alpert wanting to be free of his eternal life when he finds out that this plan he thought Jacob had was all junk (or so he thought?). Did she thank MIB for killing her because Jacob, then, wouldn't do it? Or she had to die and she knew Jacob couldn't do it?
She wouldn’t let him leave because she loves him? Is she lying even in death? What’s up with that? Did she just want company or would something catastrophic happen?
Jacob is mad and throws MIB down toward the light and he I think we can assume turns into “something worse than death,” the smoke monster.
Jacob positions Mother and MIB’s bodies in the cave, touching hands, with the pouch with the game pieces. Adam an Eve. Finally.
Could have done without the flashes of Jack, Kate and Hurley discovering Adam and Eve. We remember already! We’ve only been speculating about this since that episode!
***
On the Official LOST Podcast (May 14), Damon and Carlton mentioned a few things:
Mother's "answers only lead to more questions" comment was definitely for us. I really don't like the nods to us. Focus!
Their response to people not liking this episode was that it was done to say that they are done with the mythology; it's all about what happens to the characters now. I'm kind of ready for that.
There was a question about the magic light's water and the temple water an they responded that they could be the same and that that could be the lifeblood of the island.
A question was asked about the turtle. They pointed out that in Stephen King's It and other novels, turtles represented a force of good. Another point was made that it was on the beach on filming day and they are protected- no one can move or touch them. So is that really an answer?
On the May 7 podcast, Damon and Carlton answered a question about the rules. Some, characters would make clear, but others that aren't important to the plot won't be listed in any way. They didn't really answer the question- is this a rule that will be told- in The Shape of Things to Come, Ben and Widmore exchange words and one says, "I'll make you wish you'd never changed the rules for killing Alex" or something like that.
On the same May 7 podcast, they said that "why is Kate not a candidate" will be answered by the characters.
http://www.macchianera.net/2010/05/01/scoop-macchianera-pubblica-6-pagine-della-puntata-finale-di-lost/#pages-call
I think this is the Jacob and MIB history with the previously discussed spoilers I heard on the Transmission with them having conversations between themselves and one talks to his mother and another talks to a woman who killed his mother. Same actor that played the boy with blood on his hands plays young Jacob.
There were more spoilers from The Transmission podcast- the one for "Recon." They mentioned tighter security as we get to these last episodes- they are filming 15-finale now I guess. There were more so and so seen leaving set sighting than juicy bits at the end.
I don't know if they are all for episode 15, but that's the earliest episode they could be from...
On Judd (?) trail among the bamboo, Jacob is wearing a light color outfit with a ruffled collar shirt and MIB's wearing a brown tunic and shorts. Jacob's got MIB in a headlock and MIB looks pretty beat up.
Given what we saw in Ab Aeterno, Jacob has beat more people up than I thought. It doesn't really fit with him being the "good one," but we don't know the whole story.
At a resort with a beach cove, Kate's with Sawyer who has a rifle. Wonder what's going on? Are they talking about leaving the island together or is romance in the air?
Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, Claire, Sun and maybe Frank are on a boat and Jack and Sawyer have a confrontation. Pretty predictable. I hope they're not talking about Kate. Are they talking about escape or who's camp to join?
On the windward side of the island there are scenes filmed that convey several years. A pregnant woman with dark curly hair and a long brown dress limped away from the beach. Then and 10-13 year old boy in black runs ot the water to get a silver box and carries it inland. Is it the temple dagger?
Young Jacob and young MIB play backgammon in the trees. The woman with curly hair (no longer pregnant of course) in a coral dress calls out ot them. MIB jumps up, brushes himself off and goes to her.
One fan spoke with a crew member. The crew has been known to give red herrings, so don't know how one hsould take this...
He/she said the sub sinks and fills with water, Kate is thrown around, Desmond tries to save Analucia much like he did Charlie.
On March 9 they were at Waikiki at the Lotus Hotel (that's where Sawyer and Charlotte had their date). Jack and Widmore were there. A pregnant Claire and also David, Jack's son, were seen leaving the set. Wonder what that's about. I thought there wasn't going to be much going back in time... beyond Richard and the Jacob/MIB thing.
They were at the school- stunt doubles were there. Desmond begins beating Desmond up- what's that about?? Locke in the wheelchair was in the parking lot, but didn't do anything.
There is a Ben and Alex scene. Ben's arm is in a sling. It's after school with the school bus and cars picking up kids. A blue car comes up, Danielle gets out, Alex introduces Ben to her mom. Ben is flustered and drops his papers, they offer Ben a ride, and he gets in the car. Ben likes Danielle?? Wow. What if he becomes her stepdad and is "destined" to be a father figure to her.
Macrh 11- New Otherton- several scenes.
Miles, Ben and Richard are carrying guns, enter camp, pass picket fence where the swing set was supposed to be. Miles senses something, touches the ground, talks to Ben who looks down at the ground for awhile, Ben says something to Miles and they keep walking. I wonder if Miles heard Alex or Ben's dad or if we will know the final thoughts of one of them?
In a second scene, Ben and Unlocke talkin front of the cabin.
In a third scene, Richard is walking around by himself (bad sign...) looking around nervously when something hits him and knocks him to the ground. Oh no! Smokey!? Not Alpert! This doesn't look good for him. The last scene of the day was supposedly all camera work, a lot of quick movements, so it seems like it was a Smokey-cam (POV) or something.
March 12. Jack and Locke are on the beach. There is a scene with Claire and Locke and a canoe where Locke is trying ot get her to get in and she resists, but eentually get in the canoe together.
Last week (week of March 22?). There are crates and life vests washing up on shore. Maybe from a boat or sub wreck? Jack, Kate and Hurley were seen.
Thursday- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, old and young Jacob seen leaving the set.
Friday- Hurley and Jacob
Michelle Roderiguez is in town "this" week. "This week" equals the week of The Transmission's "Recon" hash/re-hash. So that crew member may have been giving real info?? Still didn't make sense. I'm more eager to see how this all comes together- or what comes together and what doesn't. :)
**************************************************
Post episode:
615 Across The Sea
A lot of people weren’t fond of this one. I actually liked it. I’ve been dying for more on Jacob and MIB and jungle boy that this scratched and itch somewhat. Ab Aeterno was by far the better of the flash backs and flash way backs, though. Anyway, I think that regardless of whether MIB is evil or not, he has good reason to be. He was deceived and manipulated all his life and lost his real mother. And rather than being strong and all knowing, we see Jacob as (he really is???) a weakling who was born to follow. Or is he the most good and forgiving person on earth? But he seems a bit dull, not the sharpest tool in the shed, not just docile or forgiving.
Are we to take from this that MIB is justified in what he is doing in the present time or that he chose the evil path of vengeance and Jacob chose the good path of peace and forgiveness?
Opening shipwreck is like the Losties arriving on shore after the sub sinking.
No name for MIB! Still! Doesn’t have one or we don’t know name?
Jacob and MIB are born on the island to a very pregnant, shipwrecked mom. Aaron was in the same situation an born on the island. WIll that mean anything? He was taken by The Others, but only temporarily (did they do a Dogen style test?), unlike the twins' mom and Mother situation. Kate ended up taking Aaron off the island, though, so he still got taken like the boys. All three were raised by another. MIB makes the comparison of crazy moms with Mother and Claire an adoptive and real mom, but he still identified with Aaron. MIB said the cause of his issues was being raised by a crazy mom, not being raised by another, interestingly.
Jacob and MIB are brothers! A reveal. I forgot to add this at first. I guess I had been leaning that way anyway. But, are they Cain and Able, or Jacob and Esau, or Benjamin and the rest of Jacob's children, or Romulus and Remus, etc. One innocent, one deceitful; one who is content to trust, the other who knows the truth and takes action; the firstborn Jacob gets the job, but MIB was favored; Jacob draws blood and makes MIB worse than dead, but MIB kills Mother.
Jacob is more than just a momma’s boy, he’s got no spine or personality really. We thought he was all knowing all powerful, but really, he’s just the equivalent of a clone or robot or something. I wonder if he’s being inhabited like Sayyid. The exchange where Mother says “Do you love me, Jacob? (Yes) Then tell me what happened,” is where we get that first glimpse. And he seems a bit dumb in the encounter with the boar and other men- he’s all loud and BIB has to shush him. A different picture of Jacob for sure.
“Jacob doesn't know how to lie. He's not like you.” BIB is special because he can lie? That doesn’t sound good. The keeper of the light has to be a good liar? With Jacob as the keeper, we have thought that was a good and righteous position, but it sounds as though Mother is not so good, what with the murder of the boys’ mother and all the lying. There’s always the question of the greater good- we don’t know for sure she’s not doing that for good reason, but it sure looks bad. Something I have thought about MIB since we met him.
BIB asks what’s dead. Mother says, “something you will never have to worry about.”
Sounds like she gave him the gift of living forever, like Jacob gave Alpert. BIB didn’t ask for it, though. What’s up with that being no problem and bringing people back to life is a no go? Does she have this “gift”? Did she give it to Jacob as well (before drinking the cup at the light)?
Teenage Jacob is the boy in the jungle. What’s up with teenage Jacob showing up to MIB in the present?? Still don’t get that.
Mother says: "They're not like us. They don't belong here. We are here for a reason."
BIB wants to know the reason and she says it’s not time yet.
Sounds like Widmore talking about timing with the testing, etc.
We assume the reason, though, is to protect the light which we see in the next scene. Maybe time had passed and it was time? Or was she not supposed to reveal the light until time for her to pass on guardianship and her doing so early is what caused some deaths later and the worse than death of MIB?
Mother says (when boys find they aren’t the only ones) : "The same thing that makes all men dangerous. They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same."
Sounds like what MIB tells Jacob or Alpert.
She has constructed a different reality for them- it makes me think of Shamalan’s The Village. But, then so did the things the Others or Dharma would say from time to time… In any case, her lies (or truths?) about the men on the other side of the island are the same
Ben’s choice as a boy to go with the others or the hostiles is kind of a parallel to MIB’s choice to go “home.” Ben saw his mother and that seemed to make him want to leave the Dharma camp. Was that a ghost or MIB or Smokey or what?
"Does that mean that we can hurt each other?" Teenager in Black asks.
The woman stops and takes off their blindfolds. "I've made it so you can never hurt each other."
How did she do that?
I felt a bit let down about the light in the cave. Is that really what this is about? Really? And it looked a little cheesy, too. ☹
"Light. The warmest, brightest light you've ever seen or felt. And we must make sure that no one ever finds it." (This was also super cheesy for me)
"It's beautiful." BIB says.
"Yes it is, and that's why they want it. Because a little bit of this very same light is in every man. But they always want more."
"Can they take it?" Jacob asks.
"No, but they will try. And if they try, they can put it out. And if the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. And so I've protected this place, but I can't protect if forever."
"Then who will?"
"It will have to be one of you."
Jacob’s the island is a cork thing doesn’t really hold true. Did Jacob learn to lie?
They are playing the game, senet, backgammon precursor.
"You can't do that, Jacob."
"Why not?"
"Because it's against the rules."
"You made the rules."
"I found it. One day, you'll find your own game and everyone else will have to follow your rules." (Did Jacob "find" the game he's playing with real people as pawns? Is he making the rules to this game his mom forced him to "play"?)
Teenager in Black sees Claudia over Jacob's shoulder. She says, "It's alright, don't be afraid."
Jacob turns, but doesn't see anything. "What?"
"I'm going to take a walk on the beach. I'll meet you later."
He runs down to the creek and sees her standing there. "Hello," she says.
"Why can't Jacob see you?"
"Because I'm dead. Will you come with me? I'd like to show you something."
(It seems it’s not just the lying that makes BIB different?)
"Show me what?"
"Where you come from. Across the island. A place you've never seen."
BIB tries to get Jacob to come with him to the other side of the island to live with their people. Jacob sticks by Mother and beats up BIB. Can they really not hurt each other? Or just not kill each other? Or is that a lie? Mother is a pretty big liar….
That was the scene described in the forward Cabin on The Transmission that intrigued me so much.
Mother holds Teenager in Black and says, "My love, you need to know this. Whatever you have been told, you will never be able to leave this island."
"That's not true. And one day, I can prove it!" He picks up his stuff, looks at Jacob, and then walks away.
Is that what MIB’s deal is? Does he just want to prove he can get off the island? Or is it Jacob who just wants to prove there is good in everyone and that all people aren’t corruptible? Either way, both seem to think anything goes to prove their point.
Mother admits to killing Jacob’s real mom with no real reaction by Jacob and Jacob seems to know Mother favors BIB. She insists she needs Jacob to stay in order to “stay good.” Does she know she is corrupted and that’s why she needs to find a replacement guardian of the light?
Mother never asks about MIB. I wonder is she “just knows” about him because they are good liars and alike somehow. Does she see dead people, too? I wonder if Jacob always spilled the beans or if she knew before he told on BIB.
MIB tells Jacob Mother was right about the people being greedy and manipulative, but Jacob isn’t so sure. Weird. He ends up bringing people to the island continually, which Mother probably wouldn't have been happy about. Did he end up changing the rules to defy Mother in a less bloody and overt way than MIB?
Mother knocks out MIB? Is it against the rules for her to kill him, too?
When Mother finds that people know about the light and are about to use it to get off the island, she determines it’s time to hand off her guardianship to Jacob. She made a point of telling Jacob she “said goodbye” to MIB. Did she know she was going to die?
At the light:
"You're going to protect it now." She hands him the torch and sits on a log.
"What's down there?" he asks.
"Life. Death. Rebirth. It's the source, the heart of the island."
He sits next to her. She says, "Just promise me, whatever you do, you will never go down there."
"Would I die?"
"It'd be worse than dying, Jacob, much worse." She pulls out a wine bottle and pours some liquid into a cup and chants over it. She offers him the cup. "Here, drink this."
"What happens if I do?"
"You accept the responsibility, that you will protect this place for as long as you can, and then you'll have to find your replacement."
She says “it has to be you Jacob.” (Didn’t Sayid say that to Jack or something last episode?)
Mother didn't give him a choice. Jacob seems intent on giving people a choice and not interfering (sort of). Sometimes his choices aren't great either way, though, so he could be like Mother not giving him a choice.
Mother also said he'd realize he was the one and she 's not just making him do it because he's all she's got left. This reminds me of MIB saying he'd find a way off the island, you'll see. I think Jacob realized it, but MIB hasn't gotten off yet. Hmmm...
When he drinks the cup, Mother says she and him are the same. What does that mean, exactly? I thought MIB was more like her, so are Jacob and MIB alike? If she was corrupted, did she think MIB was the one because they were liars, etc but really Jacob, the good one was more like her before?
The idea of finding a replacement to protect the light is like in the hatch, replacements were sent to keep pushing the button. Both Desmond and Jacob were unwilling participants. Desmond did something to end the need for his job. Will Jacob?
Mother burns MIB’s village. How does she do that? Can she summon Smokey like Ben? He retrieves his game, then stabs Mother as she looks at the black stone. She thanks him...for killing her? That sounds like Alpert wanting to be free of his eternal life when he finds out that this plan he thought Jacob had was all junk (or so he thought?). Did she thank MIB for killing her because Jacob, then, wouldn't do it? Or she had to die and she knew Jacob couldn't do it?
She wouldn’t let him leave because she loves him? Is she lying even in death? What’s up with that? Did she just want company or would something catastrophic happen?
Jacob is mad and throws MIB down toward the light and he I think we can assume turns into “something worse than death,” the smoke monster.
Jacob positions Mother and MIB’s bodies in the cave, touching hands, with the pouch with the game pieces. Adam an Eve. Finally.
Could have done without the flashes of Jack, Kate and Hurley discovering Adam and Eve. We remember already! We’ve only been speculating about this since that episode!
***
On the Official LOST Podcast (May 14), Damon and Carlton mentioned a few things:
Mother's "answers only lead to more questions" comment was definitely for us. I really don't like the nods to us. Focus!
Their response to people not liking this episode was that it was done to say that they are done with the mythology; it's all about what happens to the characters now. I'm kind of ready for that.
There was a question about the magic light's water and the temple water an they responded that they could be the same and that that could be the lifeblood of the island.
A question was asked about the turtle. They pointed out that in Stephen King's It and other novels, turtles represented a force of good. Another point was made that it was on the beach on filming day and they are protected- no one can move or touch them. So is that really an answer?
On the May 7 podcast, Damon and Carlton answered a question about the rules. Some, characters would make clear, but others that aren't important to the plot won't be listed in any way. They didn't really answer the question- is this a rule that will be told- in The Shape of Things to Come, Ben and Widmore exchange words and one says, "I'll make you wish you'd never changed the rules for killing Alex" or something like that.
On the same May 7 podcast, they said that "why is Kate not a candidate" will be answered by the characters.
LOST Episode 614: The Candidate
There appear to be 5 candidates revealed: Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Jin or Sun and another (Ilana has said there are 6 left). Though, Ilana and MIB aren't sure if it's one or the other Kwon or both. If it's both, then we have 6 already.
Is the title referring to the one that is ultimately chosen to replace Jacob? That would be interesting if we were to find that out.
MIB wants these 6 to get off the island with him so he can leave. He apparently wants them to stay alive. Kate's not a candidate, but he'll use her to get people off the island, then he appears not to care if Claire kills her.
I don't know what Jacob wants, really.
MIB understood that if Jacob died, he (MIB) could leave. Jacob said someone would replace him so that MIB couldn't leave, but Jacob's been dead... is there a grace period or something in these mysterious Rules? I guess that (loophole?) could be why MIB wants to get the candidates out now and things have been put into motion at the temple and with mention of an escape plan, but I would think if THE candidate wasn't ready to take over right at Jacob's death that MIB would be free to leave. That's how it would work in the real world I guess. But I guess one would need to be able to predict one's own death for that to happen. Jacob can grant eternal life, though, so is it really a stretch to say he would be able to predict his death? Jacob thought Ben wouldn't kill him, though, so maybe he died before he finished the selection process- if he's the one picking. Do we even know that? Not that Jacob's being alive or not seems to matter since he can talk to Hurley...
***
On the Official LOST Podcast (May 7) Damon and Carlto made a few relevant points.
They wanted to take out half the candidates in one fell swoop and to show that Locke was bad.
They wanted to leave no doubt that he is a force of antagonism. They wanted to show Locke finally putting his plan into action to get all the candidates together to kill them.
I would say that he definitely has opposite goals to some, but is he evil? I don't know.
Is the title referring to the one that is ultimately chosen to replace Jacob? That would be interesting if we were to find that out.
MIB wants these 6 to get off the island with him so he can leave. He apparently wants them to stay alive. Kate's not a candidate, but he'll use her to get people off the island, then he appears not to care if Claire kills her.
I don't know what Jacob wants, really.
MIB understood that if Jacob died, he (MIB) could leave. Jacob said someone would replace him so that MIB couldn't leave, but Jacob's been dead... is there a grace period or something in these mysterious Rules? I guess that (loophole?) could be why MIB wants to get the candidates out now and things have been put into motion at the temple and with mention of an escape plan, but I would think if THE candidate wasn't ready to take over right at Jacob's death that MIB would be free to leave. That's how it would work in the real world I guess. But I guess one would need to be able to predict one's own death for that to happen. Jacob can grant eternal life, though, so is it really a stretch to say he would be able to predict his death? Jacob thought Ben wouldn't kill him, though, so maybe he died before he finished the selection process- if he's the one picking. Do we even know that? Not that Jacob's being alive or not seems to matter since he can talk to Hurley...
***
On the Official LOST Podcast (May 7) Damon and Carlto made a few relevant points.
They wanted to take out half the candidates in one fell swoop and to show that Locke was bad.
They wanted to leave no doubt that he is a force of antagonism. They wanted to show Locke finally putting his plan into action to get all the candidates together to kill them.
I would say that he definitely has opposite goals to some, but is he evil? I don't know.
LOST Episode 613: The Last Recruit
(From ABC Television Network) Alliances are forged and broken as the Locke and Jack camps merge.
Ilana said MIB was recruiting.
Recruits for what??
Are Jacob's candidates the same as MIB's recruits?
Or must he get the candidates off the island and his recruits help him do that?
MIB didn't necessarily say Kate was a recruit, but he told Claire that she could get some candidates to come with them.
Must his recruits be taken over with the sickness or the darkness that eventually goes to the heart? Does the sickness cause/allow one to be a recruit or are recruits made sick?
In the same vein, I wonder if the Oceanic 6 became that because they were candidates or they became candidates as a result of being the Oceanic 6. It can't be coincidence.
***
***
post episode 4/20/19:
So Jack's the last recruit. Claire foreshadowed and Locke seems to confirm at the end after a death or near death experience.
We had gotten a heads up from Damon and Carlton that this wouldn't have character centricity.
Hurley was leading, but upon meeting Unlocke again, Jack takes the reins. We have another instance of an answer dump, but I guess it was smoother than in the last 2 episodes.
1. Jack: Why do you look like John Locke?
Unlocke: He stupidly believed he was brought here for a reason, was killed, body was brought back to island.
2. There is confirmation that Locke had to be dead to look like Locke. No answer on who else MIB has looked like. :(
3. Jack's real question- when he chased his dead dad in the jungle the first time, was it MIB?
Unlocke says yes!
In answer to why, Unlocke says Jack needed water. He has only ever wnted to help him. (Like with Ben, I'm asking can we trust him?)
Jack: Help to do what?
Unlocke: Leave. More answers- Before Jack arrived, Jacob chose him, so he was trapped on the island. This is at odds with what we're thinking for Michael and MIB, that they were trapped on the island for doing something evil. Of course Jacob and MIB always say opposite things- who knows who is right? Locke continues that since Jacob's dead, they can get on the plane anytime.
Jack: If that's true, why don't you just go?
Unlocke: All of them have to go. That's not the first time we've heard all must go together...
Jack: Still insists Locke believed in the island and did all he could to keep us here.
Unlocke: Locke wasn't a believer, he was a sucker.
It's interesting that Sun and Locke arrive at the hospital on stretchers at the same time. What does Sun know that makes her respond- no...no! and it's him! She looked pretty scared.
Claire talks to Jack in the jungle after Unlocke does. Claire seems to know Jack is with her and Unlocke. Jack says he isn't sure and Claire proves it by saying he let him talk to him just like the rest of us did. This calls back to what Dogen tells Sayid and I think MIB tells Richard about stabbing a person before he speaks.
Sawyer (of Team Sawyer) is apparently going to play with Widmore for now so he can take the sub. He will kidnap a captain for it, which answers another of our burning questions. Claire and Sayid aren't invited of course.
Sawyer's talking ot Kate in the police station. I thought a significant line was "someone's trying to put us together" in talking about their 2 run ins. Kate says what we all thought was the case- Sawyer didn't arrest Kate at LAX because he didn't want anyone to know he went ot Australia.
Jack (talking ot Kate in jungle) isn't sure if Unlocke is telling the truth that they all have to leave and have to do it together.
Zoe raids MIB's camp and if I heard correctly, asks for "Man In Charge"?? Unless there was a "the" in front of that, I guess MIB should be MIC? Demands for Desmond cryptically with pyrotechnics- deadline is night fall. Unlocke says "well, here we go." A confrontation is imminent?
Desmond runs into pregnant Claire and very obnoxiously insists she see his lawyer. His smile when his lawyer, Ilana, confirms that yes, he's instigating this meeting. But since Ilana was looking for her for Christian's will, perhaps someone else was actually instigating this meeting. He says something that could be significant or a clue- "you may find yourself in a situation that's irreversible." Is this because she is supposed ot raise Aaron or does it have meaning for the two realities?
Unlocke addresses his people and refers, like Widmore, that this is happening early- who made the schedule anyway- Widmore or MIB or someone else? He said they forced our hand, claimed we stole from them- he knows Desmond is the package- maybe Sayid wasn't supposed ot kidnap him??
In another confusing move, Unlocke picks Sawyer to get the boat even though he probably knows Sawyer's not really with him. I'm guessing Unlocke knew and wanted Sawyer to rebel. That way, he gives the candidates to Widmore (if they are working together) or whatever his goal is while still looking like he is trying to help?
Unlocke tells Sayid to kill Desmond to get what he asked for (Shannon, Nadia?). First off, the well wasn't nearly as deep as I thought! Second, I thought Sayid would get his wish after giving the message inside the temple. Perhaps the deal was to do whatever and however much is asked of him to get what he wants? I'm going to say it is Nadia, since we flash to her and not Shannon.
I'm sensing tension between Sayid and Unlocke. Sayid even lies to him. Unlocke seems to know it, though. What motivation would a man who can't feel anything have ot lie? Weird, since Sayid supposedly can't feel anything. Perhaps Sayid is getting impatient or thinks MIB won't deliver. Richard switched sides when MIB asked a lot- Jacob delivered on his end of the deal quicker.
From the well, Desmond asked Sayid what MIB offered him. This reminds me of when Dogen and Sayid discuss what was promised to them. Desmond makes a good point that probably saved his life- if Sayid tells Nadia what he did to be able to be with her, she probably won't want to be with him. This reminds me of the sacrifice some seem to make- to be with their loves or save them, but they can't really be with them. Also a few minutes later a cool parallel is that Sayid in the flash sideways tells Nadia that he will leave and not come back because of what he did though they don't name the deed.
Possibly another answer- Sayid says he believes MIB can bring Nadia back because Sayid was dead and he brought him back.
They threw me a bone! Miles' name is in fact Straume. Can we assume he lived with his divorced mom with his dad being in the area?
2 other reveals:
1.Claire trusts Unlocke because he's the only one who didn't abandon her. This reminds me of Ben saying Unlocke was the only one who'll have him.
2.Unlocke denies causing Sun's run-in with the tree and or her language difficulty. ???
Claire makes it on the boat with the candidates. Kate invites her. Does that mean she's allowed to come, like Jacob inviting people into his lair? Does she still want to kill her? I get the impression she doesn't just then...
David and Jack are at the courthouse - still don't know who the ex is, though. Ilana, the lawyer, says "do you believe in fate." She's talking about finding Claire, but it could have greater implications.
On the boat, Sawyer confronts Jack.
Jack: this doesn't feel right
Sawyer: What?
Jack: Leaving the island. A part of him is missing, like last time. They were brought here because they were supposed to do something.
He is sounding a lot like Locke, the man of faith...or the sucker.
Jack: Maybe Unlocke is afraid of what happens if they stay.
Sawyer: You have a decision to make- be with us and keep the crazy talk to yourslf or get off the boat.
Jack: This is a mistake.
Sun and Lapidus had similar talk about a mistake.
Jack: The island isn't done with us yet.
This has been said over and over about Desmond and the Oceanic 6, etc.
Jack takes the leap of faith and jumps off the boat. He apologizes for Juliet's death like he's going to die and he's making amends.
I thought I was going ot hear the thud here, but it was just a commercial.
Sun's alive, the baby's fine and Sun and Jin fonally reunite on the island! Yay!
Jack recognizes Locke just before operating. He seems overly confident. We don't get to see the results or other reactions. Does he know him from the Oceanic flight or does he remember the island time, too?
Zoe has Sawyer's people at gunpoint, stands down upon recognition long enough for the Jin/Sun reunion, then gets Widmore's command to take them at gunpoint- the deal's off. Sun can speak English upon meeting Jin. I expected that. The writing on paper was getting old.
I thought Jin and Sun were going to get killed at the sonic fence, like most people. I heard Zoe say to turn off the fence, but those guys must not be the sharpest science nerds ever- they killed that one guy in the EM generator after all. I don't think it was an unwarranted assumption we all had. I'm glad we were all wrong!
Zoe gives the word ot blow Unlocke up. Of course he's unharmed. He rescues Jack. Is Jack dead or back from the dead or alive?? Has he taken a deal like Sayid or is the deal yet to come since Sayid was brought back before being offered the deal? Unlocke said everything will be ok, Jack's with Unlocke now. Is he really ok??
Ilana said MIB was recruiting.
Recruits for what??
- Killing the candidates after he gets off the island because he can't kill them and doesn't want them to return to the island
- Getting rid of or sinking the island so the candidates can't return and that way he won't have to have them killed
- Replacing MIB
- Appointing a person to balance out Jacob and his candidates
Are Jacob's candidates the same as MIB's recruits?
Or must he get the candidates off the island and his recruits help him do that?
MIB didn't necessarily say Kate was a recruit, but he told Claire that she could get some candidates to come with them.
Must his recruits be taken over with the sickness or the darkness that eventually goes to the heart? Does the sickness cause/allow one to be a recruit or are recruits made sick?
In the same vein, I wonder if the Oceanic 6 became that because they were candidates or they became candidates as a result of being the Oceanic 6. It can't be coincidence.
***
- Andrea Gabriel as Noor "Nadia" Abed Jaseem
- Sheila Kelley as Zoe
- Kimberley Joseph as Cindy
- Dylan Minnette as David Shepherd
- Teresa Huang as surgeon
- Skyler Stone as EMT #1
- Todd Coolidge as EMT #2 (played paramedic in The Variable)
- Yvonne Midkiff as receptionist
- Christopher Amitrano as Burditt
- Kasim Saul as guard
- Steve Boatright as Mike
- Mickey Graue as Zack
- Kiersten Havelock as Emma
***
post episode 4/20/19:
So Jack's the last recruit. Claire foreshadowed and Locke seems to confirm at the end after a death or near death experience.
We had gotten a heads up from Damon and Carlton that this wouldn't have character centricity.
Hurley was leading, but upon meeting Unlocke again, Jack takes the reins. We have another instance of an answer dump, but I guess it was smoother than in the last 2 episodes.
1. Jack: Why do you look like John Locke?
Unlocke: He stupidly believed he was brought here for a reason, was killed, body was brought back to island.
2. There is confirmation that Locke had to be dead to look like Locke. No answer on who else MIB has looked like. :(
3. Jack's real question- when he chased his dead dad in the jungle the first time, was it MIB?
Unlocke says yes!
In answer to why, Unlocke says Jack needed water. He has only ever wnted to help him. (Like with Ben, I'm asking can we trust him?)
Jack: Help to do what?
Unlocke: Leave. More answers- Before Jack arrived, Jacob chose him, so he was trapped on the island. This is at odds with what we're thinking for Michael and MIB, that they were trapped on the island for doing something evil. Of course Jacob and MIB always say opposite things- who knows who is right? Locke continues that since Jacob's dead, they can get on the plane anytime.
Jack: If that's true, why don't you just go?
Unlocke: All of them have to go. That's not the first time we've heard all must go together...
Jack: Still insists Locke believed in the island and did all he could to keep us here.
Unlocke: Locke wasn't a believer, he was a sucker.
It's interesting that Sun and Locke arrive at the hospital on stretchers at the same time. What does Sun know that makes her respond- no...no! and it's him! She looked pretty scared.
Claire talks to Jack in the jungle after Unlocke does. Claire seems to know Jack is with her and Unlocke. Jack says he isn't sure and Claire proves it by saying he let him talk to him just like the rest of us did. This calls back to what Dogen tells Sayid and I think MIB tells Richard about stabbing a person before he speaks.
Sawyer (of Team Sawyer) is apparently going to play with Widmore for now so he can take the sub. He will kidnap a captain for it, which answers another of our burning questions. Claire and Sayid aren't invited of course.
Sawyer's talking ot Kate in the police station. I thought a significant line was "someone's trying to put us together" in talking about their 2 run ins. Kate says what we all thought was the case- Sawyer didn't arrest Kate at LAX because he didn't want anyone to know he went ot Australia.
Jack (talking ot Kate in jungle) isn't sure if Unlocke is telling the truth that they all have to leave and have to do it together.
Zoe raids MIB's camp and if I heard correctly, asks for "Man In Charge"?? Unless there was a "the" in front of that, I guess MIB should be MIC? Demands for Desmond cryptically with pyrotechnics- deadline is night fall. Unlocke says "well, here we go." A confrontation is imminent?
Desmond runs into pregnant Claire and very obnoxiously insists she see his lawyer. His smile when his lawyer, Ilana, confirms that yes, he's instigating this meeting. But since Ilana was looking for her for Christian's will, perhaps someone else was actually instigating this meeting. He says something that could be significant or a clue- "you may find yourself in a situation that's irreversible." Is this because she is supposed ot raise Aaron or does it have meaning for the two realities?
Unlocke addresses his people and refers, like Widmore, that this is happening early- who made the schedule anyway- Widmore or MIB or someone else? He said they forced our hand, claimed we stole from them- he knows Desmond is the package- maybe Sayid wasn't supposed ot kidnap him??
In another confusing move, Unlocke picks Sawyer to get the boat even though he probably knows Sawyer's not really with him. I'm guessing Unlocke knew and wanted Sawyer to rebel. That way, he gives the candidates to Widmore (if they are working together) or whatever his goal is while still looking like he is trying to help?
Unlocke tells Sayid to kill Desmond to get what he asked for (Shannon, Nadia?). First off, the well wasn't nearly as deep as I thought! Second, I thought Sayid would get his wish after giving the message inside the temple. Perhaps the deal was to do whatever and however much is asked of him to get what he wants? I'm going to say it is Nadia, since we flash to her and not Shannon.
I'm sensing tension between Sayid and Unlocke. Sayid even lies to him. Unlocke seems to know it, though. What motivation would a man who can't feel anything have ot lie? Weird, since Sayid supposedly can't feel anything. Perhaps Sayid is getting impatient or thinks MIB won't deliver. Richard switched sides when MIB asked a lot- Jacob delivered on his end of the deal quicker.
From the well, Desmond asked Sayid what MIB offered him. This reminds me of when Dogen and Sayid discuss what was promised to them. Desmond makes a good point that probably saved his life- if Sayid tells Nadia what he did to be able to be with her, she probably won't want to be with him. This reminds me of the sacrifice some seem to make- to be with their loves or save them, but they can't really be with them. Also a few minutes later a cool parallel is that Sayid in the flash sideways tells Nadia that he will leave and not come back because of what he did though they don't name the deed.
Possibly another answer- Sayid says he believes MIB can bring Nadia back because Sayid was dead and he brought him back.
They threw me a bone! Miles' name is in fact Straume. Can we assume he lived with his divorced mom with his dad being in the area?
2 other reveals:
1.Claire trusts Unlocke because he's the only one who didn't abandon her. This reminds me of Ben saying Unlocke was the only one who'll have him.
2.Unlocke denies causing Sun's run-in with the tree and or her language difficulty. ???
Claire makes it on the boat with the candidates. Kate invites her. Does that mean she's allowed to come, like Jacob inviting people into his lair? Does she still want to kill her? I get the impression she doesn't just then...
David and Jack are at the courthouse - still don't know who the ex is, though. Ilana, the lawyer, says "do you believe in fate." She's talking about finding Claire, but it could have greater implications.
On the boat, Sawyer confronts Jack.
Jack: this doesn't feel right
Sawyer: What?
Jack: Leaving the island. A part of him is missing, like last time. They were brought here because they were supposed to do something.
He is sounding a lot like Locke, the man of faith...or the sucker.
Jack: Maybe Unlocke is afraid of what happens if they stay.
Sawyer: You have a decision to make- be with us and keep the crazy talk to yourslf or get off the boat.
Jack: This is a mistake.
Sun and Lapidus had similar talk about a mistake.
Jack: The island isn't done with us yet.
This has been said over and over about Desmond and the Oceanic 6, etc.
Jack takes the leap of faith and jumps off the boat. He apologizes for Juliet's death like he's going to die and he's making amends.
I thought I was going ot hear the thud here, but it was just a commercial.
Sun's alive, the baby's fine and Sun and Jin fonally reunite on the island! Yay!
Jack recognizes Locke just before operating. He seems overly confident. We don't get to see the results or other reactions. Does he know him from the Oceanic flight or does he remember the island time, too?
Zoe has Sawyer's people at gunpoint, stands down upon recognition long enough for the Jin/Sun reunion, then gets Widmore's command to take them at gunpoint- the deal's off. Sun can speak English upon meeting Jin. I expected that. The writing on paper was getting old.
I thought Jin and Sun were going to get killed at the sonic fence, like most people. I heard Zoe say to turn off the fence, but those guys must not be the sharpest science nerds ever- they killed that one guy in the EM generator after all. I don't think it was an unwarranted assumption we all had. I'm glad we were all wrong!
Zoe gives the word ot blow Unlocke up. Of course he's unharmed. He rescues Jack. Is Jack dead or back from the dead or alive?? Has he taken a deal like Sayid or is the deal yet to come since Sayid was brought back before being offered the deal? Unlocke said everything will be ok, Jack's with Unlocke now. Is he really ok??
LOST Episode 612: Everybody Loves Hugo
Well, this has got to be the Hurley flash sideways. There was a spoiler on the transmission that had Jorge Garcia's stand in picking up a ticket off of the street. Did he win the lottery because he was already lucky? Did winning the lottery make him think of himself as lucky? Since he didn't pick the numbers, it doesn't matter if they were THE numbers or the new numbers or some other set maybe. And perhaps the numbers don't make him crazy. Did Jacob or someone cause the numbers to show up in Hurley's life to get him to the island in the original? Also, in the original he was going to Sydney to follow the numbers or something, so why was he on a plane this time. Maybe some business deal- with Widmore?? Maybe his dad gives him good advice or Hurley already has some business sense in the flash sideways.
***
Post-episode:
I only watched it once and that just 3 days before the next episode, this is what I picked up on-
Hurley is definitely taking more of a leadership role- deciding to talk to Unlocke, questioning Ilana on the dynamite, getting people to follow him. Jack's just falling in line so far; he used to make the decisions for the Losties.
Libby's doctor said something I thought was significant- "she has a problem with reality". The way he said it wasn't a good idea for Hurley to see her sounded like Eloise telling Desmond he wasn't ready to see Penny or the list that Penny was on for the charity event- were there others on Flight 815? A filming report spoiler from The Transmission hints that may be the case.
There was a lot last episode about love. This time, there is a lot about trust:
There was more about the island as a character, this time with Ben and Desmond. Locke has spoken that was when he was really Locke. Jacob and Richard are said to believe it needs protecting, like a person, like Ilana with the candidates.
Dr. Chang makes an appearance as a museum official giving a speech about Hurley for being so great and making another wing of the museum possible. I am still unclear as to whether Miles' name is Chang or Straume, whether his mom and dad are together in the flash sideways. This probably doesn't matter unless it plays into the bigger theme of love somehow...
Jorge Garcia's dog, NuNu, stars in the Chang video- he's the chihuahua in the pound apparently. Also on the podcast, he says filming was supposed to end April 16, but will go to April 24 or so. Will The Transmission be able to get more spoilers for their Forward Cabin?
The Hurley picking up the ticket scene is yet to be seen or maybe it got cut. In Chang's video (funny that he's hosting another video, this time of the non-DHARMA sort) it doesn't mention a lottery, but a lot of business ventures and philanthropy.
In the Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast, they mention Hurley picking up a dollar bill and using the numbers off of there to win the lottery. I don't know if they were being funny or if the script said that, but it didn't air or something.
Michael tells Hurley that if that plane blows up a lot of people will die and it will be his fault. Isabella through Hurley tells Richard not to let MIB leave the island. So is MIB supposed to leave the island or not? Are there 2 sides amongst the dead, too? It appears that Richard assumed he should blow up the plane, but that might not be the right way?
And look at Hurley getting sneaky. He tells Jack to trust him that Richard's right, they have to get more dynamite when his plan is really to explode it and get rid of it.
The jungle boy (slightly older?) returns and Desmond can see him. Locke seems resigned to the fact that others can see him and tells Desmond to ignore him. Why can't Richard? Only candidates can? Anyway, Locke doesn't act all afraid like last time. Why?? Jungle boy, probably young Jacob, smirks as Desmond and Locke walk away. Why? Does the boy know Locke will kill Desmond? Does he want Desmond out of the way himself? Does he know there will be consequences for MIB if he kills Desmond?
Pushing Desmond down the well seems to give us another reason MIB is more bad than good or neutral. Unless in so doing he is helping accomplish something like when Charlie wrecks the car to show Desmond his true love in the other time line.
Whether or not it's important, several points were made about the well:
Some are asking why Charlie had to nearly drown Desmond and Desmond had to run over Locke (presumably) to show them this love and why Daniel just saw Charlotte eating chocolate and Desmond talked to Hurley. I remember what Jacob said- "Sometimes you can just hop in the back of someone's cab and tell them what to do. Other times you have to let them look out at the ocean for awhile."
I guess we don't know Desmond is dead for sure. If he's a candidate, MIB can't kill him- or so we think. Either way- that wasn't nice pushing him down that well like that! I guess I thought he was going to have more of a role. Hopefully that won't be the end of Desmond! Is this his punishment for the "violation" Eloise mentioned in Happily Ever After-his way of seeing things being influenced and his desire to show Flight 815 their love in another life??
Ilana blows up like Arzt did. Kinda dumb to throw down a bag of unstable dynamite. Did she mean to do it? Locke had to die. Richard wants to die. Jacob's dead. Does Jacob or the island have it in for everyone or must she die in order to accomplish something? Was it just a mistake and the writers needed to get rid of her for the story to progress?
What's in Ilana's bag that Hurley picked up? Jacob's ashes.
Richard asks Hurley to ask Jacob what the island is to prove Hurley's really talking to him. Some think it is significant. I thought Richard was just looking for the answer of "the cork" as proof. I don't know that he knows much more than that personally. Richard and Jack seemed to know Hurley wasn't talking to Jacob- or at least that's what they want people to believe. Hurley was convincing- he used that dodging the question thing with Dogen.
In the jungle, candidates and non-candidates seem to go in different directions. Richard leads the non-candidates (to their doom??) and Hurley leads the candidates. Could he be the one?
Did Desmond make Libby remember Hurley first? He did visit Hurley, but after the initial meeting with Libby to encourage another meeting (?) to jog his memory. Libby helps Hurley remember their mutual love/like with a kiss- a bit less forcefully than Charlie helps Desmond remember. Desmond is turning out to be quite the puppetmaster. Charlie set him in motion, so is he the puppetmaster? Who tipped Charlie off? Would that be the true puppetmaster? Eloise knows a lot, but doesn't want Desmond snooping around, so this puppetmaster would have to be working in opposition to the Widmores...
Desmond runs over Locke in his wheelchair in the flash sideways??? He's outside Ben's school, but I don't think location has anything to do with it. There is a spoiler that says Desmond is seen beating Ben up- wonder if that's to come or if it got cut? Ben asks Desmond who he's waiting on to try and see if he's a molester of something. Desmond says his son is Charlie. This could be like when Claire said Aaron in the hospital in the flash sideways. A bleed through of the time lines. Or it could be he just had that crazy encounter with Charlie and that's who's name came to mind. Or he could know he has a son named Charlie because he saw those flashes of Penny, Charlie's birth, Charlie as a toddler, etc, so it wasn't like Claire so much as a stretch of the truth- he does have a son, but not in this life and not at this school.
What's up with that, Desmond? Hit and run, too. Ouch! Was Desmond trying to "show" Locke something? He's with Helen in the flash sideways, so he wouldn't be trying to show him that. Maybe he wanted to kill him because he's one that got his love in the flash sideways--but I'm still thinking about choosing one or the other time line, though. I don't think it will be a one or the other type of thing. I hope not, anyway. He could have been showing him that he can walk in the flash sideways. That has been a nagging issue with Locke- he seemed to be trying to come to terms with the fact that he won't walk Helen down the aisle. Will he have to make a choice- walking or Helen?
If Desmond can still hop around in time, I guess he could be paying Locke back for pushing him down that well, but I just don't think that's it.
We get big answers about the island from Michael:
I thought it was strange having him pop in and drop that much on us. It didn't really flow, I thought. It seems like the writers thought, hmm, we're getting close to the end and we need to cram all this in so here goes. Not that I hated getting answers, though!
Last episode, the Charlie and Daniel pouncing on and pestering Desmond about true love seemed dropped on us, too. Maybe it was that blunt to give us the feeling that the characters are impatient and want answers and want to know their loves? I hope answers in the future are more subtle or delivered a bit more smoothly.
All candidates are together- except Jin. What does that mean? Maybe it's just a way to get that confrontation with Widmore and move the story. Or is he the candidate?
***
Post-episode:
I only watched it once and that just 3 days before the next episode, this is what I picked up on-
Hurley is definitely taking more of a leadership role- deciding to talk to Unlocke, questioning Ilana on the dynamite, getting people to follow him. Jack's just falling in line so far; he used to make the decisions for the Losties.
Libby's doctor said something I thought was significant- "she has a problem with reality". The way he said it wasn't a good idea for Hurley to see her sounded like Eloise telling Desmond he wasn't ready to see Penny or the list that Penny was on for the charity event- were there others on Flight 815? A filming report spoiler from The Transmission hints that may be the case.
There was a lot last episode about love. This time, there is a lot about trust:
- Hurley asks Michael why he should trust him- he murdered Libby and Analucia
- Ilana says "you have to trust me" before she blows up when Hurley questions her
- Hurley asks Jack to trust him in agreeing to go with Richard to the Black Rock
- Jack reassures Hurley that he trusts him- "this is me trusting you"
- Desmond takes Locke's hand after he unties him, unlike many who have refused.
There was more about the island as a character, this time with Ben and Desmond. Locke has spoken that was when he was really Locke. Jacob and Richard are said to believe it needs protecting, like a person, like Ilana with the candidates.
Dr. Chang makes an appearance as a museum official giving a speech about Hurley for being so great and making another wing of the museum possible. I am still unclear as to whether Miles' name is Chang or Straume, whether his mom and dad are together in the flash sideways. This probably doesn't matter unless it plays into the bigger theme of love somehow...
Jorge Garcia's dog, NuNu, stars in the Chang video- he's the chihuahua in the pound apparently. Also on the podcast, he says filming was supposed to end April 16, but will go to April 24 or so. Will The Transmission be able to get more spoilers for their Forward Cabin?
The Hurley picking up the ticket scene is yet to be seen or maybe it got cut. In Chang's video (funny that he's hosting another video, this time of the non-DHARMA sort) it doesn't mention a lottery, but a lot of business ventures and philanthropy.
In the Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast, they mention Hurley picking up a dollar bill and using the numbers off of there to win the lottery. I don't know if they were being funny or if the script said that, but it didn't air or something.
Michael tells Hurley that if that plane blows up a lot of people will die and it will be his fault. Isabella through Hurley tells Richard not to let MIB leave the island. So is MIB supposed to leave the island or not? Are there 2 sides amongst the dead, too? It appears that Richard assumed he should blow up the plane, but that might not be the right way?
And look at Hurley getting sneaky. He tells Jack to trust him that Richard's right, they have to get more dynamite when his plan is really to explode it and get rid of it.
The jungle boy (slightly older?) returns and Desmond can see him. Locke seems resigned to the fact that others can see him and tells Desmond to ignore him. Why can't Richard? Only candidates can? Anyway, Locke doesn't act all afraid like last time. Why?? Jungle boy, probably young Jacob, smirks as Desmond and Locke walk away. Why? Does the boy know Locke will kill Desmond? Does he want Desmond out of the way himself? Does he know there will be consequences for MIB if he kills Desmond?
Pushing Desmond down the well seems to give us another reason MIB is more bad than good or neutral. Unless in so doing he is helping accomplish something like when Charlie wrecks the car to show Desmond his true love in the other time line.
Whether or not it's important, several points were made about the well:
- there is more than one
- they were dug to find answers
- it makes a compass spin (implying the EM phenom.)
Some are asking why Charlie had to nearly drown Desmond and Desmond had to run over Locke (presumably) to show them this love and why Daniel just saw Charlotte eating chocolate and Desmond talked to Hurley. I remember what Jacob said- "Sometimes you can just hop in the back of someone's cab and tell them what to do. Other times you have to let them look out at the ocean for awhile."
I guess we don't know Desmond is dead for sure. If he's a candidate, MIB can't kill him- or so we think. Either way- that wasn't nice pushing him down that well like that! I guess I thought he was going to have more of a role. Hopefully that won't be the end of Desmond! Is this his punishment for the "violation" Eloise mentioned in Happily Ever After-his way of seeing things being influenced and his desire to show Flight 815 their love in another life??
Ilana blows up like Arzt did. Kinda dumb to throw down a bag of unstable dynamite. Did she mean to do it? Locke had to die. Richard wants to die. Jacob's dead. Does Jacob or the island have it in for everyone or must she die in order to accomplish something? Was it just a mistake and the writers needed to get rid of her for the story to progress?
What's in Ilana's bag that Hurley picked up? Jacob's ashes.
Richard asks Hurley to ask Jacob what the island is to prove Hurley's really talking to him. Some think it is significant. I thought Richard was just looking for the answer of "the cork" as proof. I don't know that he knows much more than that personally. Richard and Jack seemed to know Hurley wasn't talking to Jacob- or at least that's what they want people to believe. Hurley was convincing- he used that dodging the question thing with Dogen.
In the jungle, candidates and non-candidates seem to go in different directions. Richard leads the non-candidates (to their doom??) and Hurley leads the candidates. Could he be the one?
Did Desmond make Libby remember Hurley first? He did visit Hurley, but after the initial meeting with Libby to encourage another meeting (?) to jog his memory. Libby helps Hurley remember their mutual love/like with a kiss- a bit less forcefully than Charlie helps Desmond remember. Desmond is turning out to be quite the puppetmaster. Charlie set him in motion, so is he the puppetmaster? Who tipped Charlie off? Would that be the true puppetmaster? Eloise knows a lot, but doesn't want Desmond snooping around, so this puppetmaster would have to be working in opposition to the Widmores...
Desmond runs over Locke in his wheelchair in the flash sideways??? He's outside Ben's school, but I don't think location has anything to do with it. There is a spoiler that says Desmond is seen beating Ben up- wonder if that's to come or if it got cut? Ben asks Desmond who he's waiting on to try and see if he's a molester of something. Desmond says his son is Charlie. This could be like when Claire said Aaron in the hospital in the flash sideways. A bleed through of the time lines. Or it could be he just had that crazy encounter with Charlie and that's who's name came to mind. Or he could know he has a son named Charlie because he saw those flashes of Penny, Charlie's birth, Charlie as a toddler, etc, so it wasn't like Claire so much as a stretch of the truth- he does have a son, but not in this life and not at this school.
What's up with that, Desmond? Hit and run, too. Ouch! Was Desmond trying to "show" Locke something? He's with Helen in the flash sideways, so he wouldn't be trying to show him that. Maybe he wanted to kill him because he's one that got his love in the flash sideways--but I'm still thinking about choosing one or the other time line, though. I don't think it will be a one or the other type of thing. I hope not, anyway. He could have been showing him that he can walk in the flash sideways. That has been a nagging issue with Locke- he seemed to be trying to come to terms with the fact that he won't walk Helen down the aisle. Will he have to make a choice- walking or Helen?
If Desmond can still hop around in time, I guess he could be paying Locke back for pushing him down that well, but I just don't think that's it.
We get big answers about the island from Michael:
Michael steps out and Hurley says, "You're stuck on the island, aren't you?"
Michael nods. "Because of what I did."
"And, there are others out here like you, aren't there? That's what the whispers are?"
"Yeah, we're the ones that can't move on."
Does this mean the island is purgatory? I thought Damon and Carlton had rejected that theory. We assume he's stuck because of bad things he did. Maybe he's stuck there for another thing he did related to leaving the island or something?I thought it was strange having him pop in and drop that much on us. It didn't really flow, I thought. It seems like the writers thought, hmm, we're getting close to the end and we need to cram all this in so here goes. Not that I hated getting answers, though!
Last episode, the Charlie and Daniel pouncing on and pestering Desmond about true love seemed dropped on us, too. Maybe it was that blunt to give us the feeling that the characters are impatient and want answers and want to know their loves? I hope answers in the future are more subtle or delivered a bit more smoothly.
All candidates are together- except Jin. What does that mean? Maybe it's just a way to get that confrontation with Widmore and move the story. Or is he the candidate?
LOST Episode 611: Happily Ever After
Pre- 611:
I didn't catch this, but Lostpedia has this about the previous episode (610), The Package:
When speaking with Jin, Widmore uses the phrase "happily ever after", which is a direct reference to the title of the this episode.
EDIT-->I found that it was actually Keamy who said it when Jin and Sun asked that Keamy not tell Mr. Paik that Jin and Sun are involved.
This was a bit confusing since isn't that the reason for Mr. Paik's paying Keamy to kill Jin?? He should already know. I guess when Keamy reveals this, Jin can't understand (English), so it's more irony or something.
The title has a less happy sort of meaning for Desmond or whomever this episode is about? I hope not!
***
Could this be a Desmond episode?
***
In pondering this, I've read some to jog my memory on some things.
Eloise told him pushing the button was the greatest thing he'd ever do.
That last bit sounds like Widmore's warning that if MIB gets off the island the people they love will cease to exist. The two were married. Do they talk? What is their relationship now? Are they in cahoots? Or the opposite?
4/3/10 edit:
Charlie, Daniel, Eloise, Penny! Awesome. This is going to be a good one. Goon #1 and clipboard guy. Nice.
Lawyer- maybe we're going to see the spoiler scene where several characters converge (knowingly or unknowingly?) -Claire about the adoption, Desmond advising her to get a lawyer, David and Jack for the will reading (with a phone call from the ex-will we find out who she is??) and maybe Charlie for the drugs.
The hospital is also a place for characters ot converge with Sun shot in the stomach, Jack being a doctor, Locke possibly needing a doctor.
Dominic Monaghan as Charlie
Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond
Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Fionnula Flanagan as Eloise Hawking
Sonya Walger as Penelope "Penny" Widmore
Fisher Stevens as George Minkowski
Sheila Kelley as Zoe
Fred Koehler as Seamus
Kayren Butler as doctor
Ben Cain as MRI tech
Grisel Toledo as Nurse Tyra
Sundra Oakley as lawyer
Haley Williams as assistant
Jonathan Arthur as Simmons
Gerard Elmore as clipboard guy
Hannah Bell as nurse
Christopher McGahan as techie #1
Steve Boatright as goon #1.
***
Post 611- 4/7/10:
On the podcasts, a lot of people are commneting on the bunny, Angstrom. I definitely don't think this and Faraday and other names of philosophers and literary figures are huge clues or Easter eggs. If you have ever taken basic science I think you should at least know Angstrom and Faraday were men who had units of measure in their field named after them even if you don't remember what their field was or how to do any calculations involving them. I like the relevance, but there are so many good literary references and other things like that. This wasn't a big a deal to me as it seems to be for many podcast listeners.
One interesting thing the podcasts pointed out was that water affects magnetism and Desmond and MIB both seem to have some - not phobia- but issue with water. MIB can't turn into Smoky and fly over water. Desmond has had scenes where he flashed while water was running or he encountered water - when Ben shot him and with Charlie twice, etc.
Charlie said the flash sideways aren't real or don't matter or something. This seems like a clue. But is this just a love drunk junkie's take on things or a real clue? Interesting. Is he talking about life, though? He said on the plane after choking that he was supposed to die or something like that. Maybe since he died on the island, he knows what's up and can help the Losties figure out what they need to do, like Isabella did for Richard.
The choice and free will vs. predestination thing comes up again when Charlie said his choice doesn't sound like much of a choice (like some of Jacob and MIB's choices) and Desmond says there is always a choice, "brotha." I love a Desmond episode. This is like the temple choice and the purge choice- do this thing I want you to do or you will die. Some choice.
There's a scale in Widmore's office. Is there meaning behind it in the fact that it's balanced or is this just a nod to the struggle on the island between MIB and Jacob, which appears to be good vs. evil?
Faraday is a musician like he wanted. I wonder if Eloise didn't push him to be a physicist or he went against her wishes to study music? They look like a happy little family- Charles, Eloise, and Daniel.
Penny is still Daniel’s half brother, but her name isn’t Widmore. Some people think the common parent is Eloise in this one rather than Widmore. I personally don’t think that's true. That wouldn’t make sense genetically, not that it has to on TV/fiction. ☺ A shift in family trees hasn’t been seen so far, so that would definitely be puzzling if Penny is Eloise’s daughter.
You could explain the different surname by her taking her stepfather’s name (if there is one?), her mother's name, an adoptive family’s name if her mother died when she was young (and she couldn’t live with Widmmore for some reason), Widmore told her to change it or changed it for her because he thought it would help get done what he thinks he’s got to do with the island, Widmore changed it for her to distance her from what he’s doing for her safety, Widmore changed it for her to try and hide her from Desmond. Of course Faraday had the name Faraday instead of Hawking or Widmore- so maybe Penny's mom isn't going to be important; it's just supposed to mirror the Faraday name thing. Milton wrote Paradise Lost... Maybe it's not so much a clue as a little joke and allusion.
Desmond has Widmore's approval. Eloise said that's the thing he wanted. If she truly knows what's up, she would know that Desmond only wanted Widmore's approval to be with Penny? Or we're all wrong and love isn't what drives Des, it's really power?? Otherwise, she seems like she knows a lot about what's going on. Maybe Widmore or someone else is giving her instructions and that's what he thinks Desmond wanted most- money, power, Widmore's approval and help to get those things? I say Widmore because that would be pretty egocentric and a guy with so much power would think that's what matters most. On the other hand, he does care that he sacrificed Penny's love and I don't know that he knows as much as Eloise...
Perhaps she got this bad tip from someone else, someone else gave Desmond this life, or Eloise doesn't know as much as we think and someone else is running the show (MIB? Jacob?)
Desmond's sacrifice. He will have to help Widmore or all the people they love will cease to exist. He agrees. What is the sacrifice? That Penny will live, but he will be Widmore's right hand man and can't be with her? That type of sacrifice or "choice" seems to reappear quite a bit. Is Widmore setting things up so that he will have Penny's love, but Desmond won't- but he will have success, power, money? If so, he will turn out to be as cold as Mr. Paik! Maybe we will find they aren't so bad- they were just doing bad things so that in the end they'd live Happily Ever After?
Desmond is the only one who survived a catastrophic electromagnetic event? I thought Charlie was with him. Maybe he wasn't as close to it as Desmond? And he wasn't alive to bring back to the island.
Another test- putting Desmond in the EM generator to see if he does indeed live. Nice. It may have been overkill to fry that one guy, though. I get it already, not one survives it. Except Desmond.
Desmond is Widmore's right hand man in the flash sideways?! And good enough to share his McCutcheon's with. Wow.
Freighter guy- George Minkowski- is the driver. Desmond was also on Oceanic 815 instead of pushing that button. An answer. Jack did see the actual Desmond; he was on the flight.
Desmond and Charlie are again together. The near death experiences of Charlie's choking and Desmond and Charlie's recent near drowning showed them who they loved in the original time line even thought they don't know them in this time line. Faraday encountered some knowledge from the original time in a dream. He found out about his original time line love for Charlotte while she was eating chocolate and not in a near death experience like the other two.
Also in the flash sideways, Eloise and Charles are still married and together, Eloise's name is Widmore rather than Hawking, Faraday's name is Widmore, Faraday lives or has lived with both parents it seems. Penny is not a Widmore, but a Milton? Charlie's band is playing at the Widmore's charity event, but has to get bailed out by the all powerful Widmore first or face the wrath of Eloise.
Eloise is again warning Desmond not to find or not to be with Penny. When she said it with the engagement rings, I got the impression that she didn't want them together at all. This time, she seems to say he's not ready (the island isn't done with him yet? But it's underwater in this timeline??). It doesn't seem as final, as though she'd be ok with them being together after she does what she needs to do. Is she trying to merge the time lines or keep them separate? Has her goal been to eliminate Penny or the mistress that is Penny's mother? Or was Penny born at a time Widmore wasn't married to Eloise so everybody's cool? Widmore and Eloise didn't make reference to DHARMA like Ben's dad- were they still DHARMA way back when?
There is a hands off the bosses daughter theme in this one, though not to the degree we saw with Jin and Sun. It comes from Eloise rather than Charles, this time, though. I wonder if Widmore would be ok with Desmond being with Penny now or if whatever Eloise says goes.
Could all of this just be all not to make Eloise mad? Is she the one that will cause everyone's loved ones to case to exist? This episode gives the impression that the Widmores are running the show, not MIB and Jacob as I was thinking. The exception being what I mentioned above with Eloise saying Widmore's approval was what Desmond wanted most...
Charlie wrecking the car to make Desmond see what he's talking about with seeing Claire was crazy. I didn't see that coming. Does he have a death wish or does he know he can't die or is already dead or something else? Of course we see a repeat of Charlie's drowning death in flashes which is a good tie in.
Faraday gives us (through Desmond) some clues. They compare notes on seeing a girl they love but haven't met - in this time line. Faraday has the added experience about the physics stuff in his sleep. It shows real and imaginary time merging... It seems like it's going to be one or the other at this point, but maybe they'll be able to take the good stuff from the new timeline and the love from the old one as it merges? And be...Happily Ever After...? I'm glad the title wasn't necessarily ironic. We don't know yet.
Desmond quickly changes "sides" if that is what is going on. I've said that's the way it looks, but I'm hoping it's something better. He coolly goes from walking with Zoe to going along with Sayid. He's pretty unaffected by Sayid's kiling of Widmore's men, like he knows what's going on. Interesting that Sayid told Zoe to run. Sayid wanted Widmore to know what happened? Is Desmond just love-struck from seeing Penny in the flash sideways or does he know his purpose now and knows it involves MIB and Sayid? I assume Sayid was told by MIB to do this since Sayid feels nothing- he wouldn't feel motivated by anything to do it on his own?
Desmond asks Minkowski to get the Oceanic flight manifest. Again with the lists. He's going to show them something... love? I wonder if we want him to show them somehting or if this will cause harm to our Happily Ever After (ending)? Maybe we should be on Eloise's side for him to not interfere? She said someone has affected the way he sees things and this is a violation. Again with the rules! Puzzling. A violation for Desmond or Charlie? Will one of them be penalized?
I didn't catch this, but Lostpedia has this about the previous episode (610), The Package:
When speaking with Jin, Widmore uses the phrase "happily ever after", which is a direct reference to the title of the this episode.
EDIT-->I found that it was actually Keamy who said it when Jin and Sun asked that Keamy not tell Mr. Paik that Jin and Sun are involved.
This was a bit confusing since isn't that the reason for Mr. Paik's paying Keamy to kill Jin?? He should already know. I guess when Keamy reveals this, Jin can't understand (English), so it's more irony or something.
The title has a less happy sort of meaning for Desmond or whomever this episode is about? I hope not!
***
Could this be a Desmond episode?
***
In pondering this, I've read some to jog my memory on some things.
Eloise told him pushing the button was the greatest thing he'd ever do.
When Eloise showed him a ring and Desmond told her he would take it, she seemed upset and responded by telling him he would not. After Desmond refused to give the ring back she explained to Desmond that she knows his name, he will break Penny's heart, he will not marry Penny, instead entering the sailing race to prove Penny's father wrong, and he will go to the Island and press the button for three years until forced to turn the failsafe key. She said that if he "doesn't do those things," that "every single one of us is dead."
That last bit sounds like Widmore's warning that if MIB gets off the island the people they love will cease to exist. The two were married. Do they talk? What is their relationship now? Are they in cahoots? Or the opposite?
4/3/10 edit:
Charlie, Daniel, Eloise, Penny! Awesome. This is going to be a good one. Goon #1 and clipboard guy. Nice.
Lawyer- maybe we're going to see the spoiler scene where several characters converge (knowingly or unknowingly?) -Claire about the adoption, Desmond advising her to get a lawyer, David and Jack for the will reading (with a phone call from the ex-will we find out who she is??) and maybe Charlie for the drugs.
The hospital is also a place for characters ot converge with Sun shot in the stomach, Jack being a doctor, Locke possibly needing a doctor.
Dominic Monaghan as Charlie
Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond
Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Fionnula Flanagan as Eloise Hawking
Sonya Walger as Penelope "Penny" Widmore
Fisher Stevens as George Minkowski
Sheila Kelley as Zoe
Fred Koehler as Seamus
Kayren Butler as doctor
Ben Cain as MRI tech
Grisel Toledo as Nurse Tyra
Sundra Oakley as lawyer
Haley Williams as assistant
Jonathan Arthur as Simmons
Gerard Elmore as clipboard guy
Hannah Bell as nurse
Christopher McGahan as techie #1
Steve Boatright as goon #1.
***
Post 611- 4/7/10:
On the podcasts, a lot of people are commneting on the bunny, Angstrom. I definitely don't think this and Faraday and other names of philosophers and literary figures are huge clues or Easter eggs. If you have ever taken basic science I think you should at least know Angstrom and Faraday were men who had units of measure in their field named after them even if you don't remember what their field was or how to do any calculations involving them. I like the relevance, but there are so many good literary references and other things like that. This wasn't a big a deal to me as it seems to be for many podcast listeners.
One interesting thing the podcasts pointed out was that water affects magnetism and Desmond and MIB both seem to have some - not phobia- but issue with water. MIB can't turn into Smoky and fly over water. Desmond has had scenes where he flashed while water was running or he encountered water - when Ben shot him and with Charlie twice, etc.
Charlie said the flash sideways aren't real or don't matter or something. This seems like a clue. But is this just a love drunk junkie's take on things or a real clue? Interesting. Is he talking about life, though? He said on the plane after choking that he was supposed to die or something like that. Maybe since he died on the island, he knows what's up and can help the Losties figure out what they need to do, like Isabella did for Richard.
The choice and free will vs. predestination thing comes up again when Charlie said his choice doesn't sound like much of a choice (like some of Jacob and MIB's choices) and Desmond says there is always a choice, "brotha." I love a Desmond episode. This is like the temple choice and the purge choice- do this thing I want you to do or you will die. Some choice.
There's a scale in Widmore's office. Is there meaning behind it in the fact that it's balanced or is this just a nod to the struggle on the island between MIB and Jacob, which appears to be good vs. evil?
Faraday is a musician like he wanted. I wonder if Eloise didn't push him to be a physicist or he went against her wishes to study music? They look like a happy little family- Charles, Eloise, and Daniel.
Penny is still Daniel’s half brother, but her name isn’t Widmore. Some people think the common parent is Eloise in this one rather than Widmore. I personally don’t think that's true. That wouldn’t make sense genetically, not that it has to on TV/fiction. ☺ A shift in family trees hasn’t been seen so far, so that would definitely be puzzling if Penny is Eloise’s daughter.
You could explain the different surname by her taking her stepfather’s name (if there is one?), her mother's name, an adoptive family’s name if her mother died when she was young (and she couldn’t live with Widmmore for some reason), Widmore told her to change it or changed it for her because he thought it would help get done what he thinks he’s got to do with the island, Widmore changed it for her to distance her from what he’s doing for her safety, Widmore changed it for her to try and hide her from Desmond. Of course Faraday had the name Faraday instead of Hawking or Widmore- so maybe Penny's mom isn't going to be important; it's just supposed to mirror the Faraday name thing. Milton wrote Paradise Lost... Maybe it's not so much a clue as a little joke and allusion.
Desmond has Widmore's approval. Eloise said that's the thing he wanted. If she truly knows what's up, she would know that Desmond only wanted Widmore's approval to be with Penny? Or we're all wrong and love isn't what drives Des, it's really power?? Otherwise, she seems like she knows a lot about what's going on. Maybe Widmore or someone else is giving her instructions and that's what he thinks Desmond wanted most- money, power, Widmore's approval and help to get those things? I say Widmore because that would be pretty egocentric and a guy with so much power would think that's what matters most. On the other hand, he does care that he sacrificed Penny's love and I don't know that he knows as much as Eloise...
Perhaps she got this bad tip from someone else, someone else gave Desmond this life, or Eloise doesn't know as much as we think and someone else is running the show (MIB? Jacob?)
Desmond's sacrifice. He will have to help Widmore or all the people they love will cease to exist. He agrees. What is the sacrifice? That Penny will live, but he will be Widmore's right hand man and can't be with her? That type of sacrifice or "choice" seems to reappear quite a bit. Is Widmore setting things up so that he will have Penny's love, but Desmond won't- but he will have success, power, money? If so, he will turn out to be as cold as Mr. Paik! Maybe we will find they aren't so bad- they were just doing bad things so that in the end they'd live Happily Ever After?
Desmond is the only one who survived a catastrophic electromagnetic event? I thought Charlie was with him. Maybe he wasn't as close to it as Desmond? And he wasn't alive to bring back to the island.
Another test- putting Desmond in the EM generator to see if he does indeed live. Nice. It may have been overkill to fry that one guy, though. I get it already, not one survives it. Except Desmond.
Desmond is Widmore's right hand man in the flash sideways?! And good enough to share his McCutcheon's with. Wow.
Freighter guy- George Minkowski- is the driver. Desmond was also on Oceanic 815 instead of pushing that button. An answer. Jack did see the actual Desmond; he was on the flight.
Desmond and Charlie are again together. The near death experiences of Charlie's choking and Desmond and Charlie's recent near drowning showed them who they loved in the original time line even thought they don't know them in this time line. Faraday encountered some knowledge from the original time in a dream. He found out about his original time line love for Charlotte while she was eating chocolate and not in a near death experience like the other two.
Also in the flash sideways, Eloise and Charles are still married and together, Eloise's name is Widmore rather than Hawking, Faraday's name is Widmore, Faraday lives or has lived with both parents it seems. Penny is not a Widmore, but a Milton? Charlie's band is playing at the Widmore's charity event, but has to get bailed out by the all powerful Widmore first or face the wrath of Eloise.
Eloise is again warning Desmond not to find or not to be with Penny. When she said it with the engagement rings, I got the impression that she didn't want them together at all. This time, she seems to say he's not ready (the island isn't done with him yet? But it's underwater in this timeline??). It doesn't seem as final, as though she'd be ok with them being together after she does what she needs to do. Is she trying to merge the time lines or keep them separate? Has her goal been to eliminate Penny or the mistress that is Penny's mother? Or was Penny born at a time Widmore wasn't married to Eloise so everybody's cool? Widmore and Eloise didn't make reference to DHARMA like Ben's dad- were they still DHARMA way back when?
There is a hands off the bosses daughter theme in this one, though not to the degree we saw with Jin and Sun. It comes from Eloise rather than Charles, this time, though. I wonder if Widmore would be ok with Desmond being with Penny now or if whatever Eloise says goes.
Could all of this just be all not to make Eloise mad? Is she the one that will cause everyone's loved ones to case to exist? This episode gives the impression that the Widmores are running the show, not MIB and Jacob as I was thinking. The exception being what I mentioned above with Eloise saying Widmore's approval was what Desmond wanted most...
Charlie wrecking the car to make Desmond see what he's talking about with seeing Claire was crazy. I didn't see that coming. Does he have a death wish or does he know he can't die or is already dead or something else? Of course we see a repeat of Charlie's drowning death in flashes which is a good tie in.
Faraday gives us (through Desmond) some clues. They compare notes on seeing a girl they love but haven't met - in this time line. Faraday has the added experience about the physics stuff in his sleep. It shows real and imaginary time merging... It seems like it's going to be one or the other at this point, but maybe they'll be able to take the good stuff from the new timeline and the love from the old one as it merges? And be...Happily Ever After...? I'm glad the title wasn't necessarily ironic. We don't know yet.
Desmond quickly changes "sides" if that is what is going on. I've said that's the way it looks, but I'm hoping it's something better. He coolly goes from walking with Zoe to going along with Sayid. He's pretty unaffected by Sayid's kiling of Widmore's men, like he knows what's going on. Interesting that Sayid told Zoe to run. Sayid wanted Widmore to know what happened? Is Desmond just love-struck from seeing Penny in the flash sideways or does he know his purpose now and knows it involves MIB and Sayid? I assume Sayid was told by MIB to do this since Sayid feels nothing- he wouldn't feel motivated by anything to do it on his own?
Desmond asks Minkowski to get the Oceanic flight manifest. Again with the lists. He's going to show them something... love? I wonder if we want him to show them somehting or if this will cause harm to our Happily Ever After (ending)? Maybe we should be on Eloise's side for him to not interfere? She said someone has affected the way he sees things and this is a violation. Again with the rules! Puzzling. A violation for Desmond or Charlie? Will one of them be penalized?
LOST Episode 610: The Package
Dr. Chang shows up in the parallel universe?
That is looking to be wrong information, unless he is in the background or something. ? He's not on the guest star list. A lot of characters are in LA, so it's possible no matter who's centric episode it is, I guess.
Synopsis:(From ABC Television Network) Sun and Jin desperately continue their search for one another, and Locke confronts his enemy.
Guest starring:
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Kevin Durand as Keamy
Anthony Azizi as Omar
Andrew Divoff as Mikhail Bakunin
Sheila Kelley as Zoe
Fred Koehler as Seamus
Chad Donella as desk clerk
Natalie Garcia Fryman as Ms. Kendall
Larry Joshua as Burditt
***
Post episode:
I didn't love this episode. I'll watch it again and see what I think, though. We learned a few things, though.
A drugged Desmond is the package and Locke's enemy (ABC summary) isn't Jacob, but Widmore. Is the package what was behind two locks and a guard in the sub? Why do you need two locks and a guard for a drugged guy? Perhaps it wasn't to keep drugged Desmond from leaving, but to keep him from being kidnapped- or Desmond is only part of the package. Calling Desmond the package reminded me of Mr. Paik's employees delivering his messages, which are beatings or kills.
In the flash sideways, Jin and Sun aren't married but they still end up going to LA "together," they are secretly dating and happy, Sun doesn't know English- unlike in the original, Jin still works for Mr. Paik, and Sun is pregnant- like on the island. Since she didn't appear to have that fling with the family friend, she knows it's Jin's. And, by the way, Jin doesn't have fertility problems in the flash sideways.
It has been asked, is the baby in the flash sideways Jin's. I say yes. No doubt. Before the knock at the door, she was going to tell him something. Probably that she was pregnant.
Why does Jin still work for Mr. Paik? I thought this was a bargain in order for Sun to be able marry Jin. Mr. Paik is another master and ruthless manipulator, it seems. In the flash sideways, Mr. Paik sends Jin to LA to be killed by Keamy the hit man and his friends- Sun gets shot at the end so, that may backfire. In the original story, Mr. Paik probably gets Jin to work for him so Sun will hate him as she hates her father for what he does. I don't know that she knows what her father does in the flash sideways; it wasn't clear. Or perhaps, her father doesn't order hits in this one. He did pay Keamy to get Jin.
Sayid just gave Jin the knife to free himself. Not very nice. But, on the other hand, he witnessed Sayid killing or at least shooting everyone. So maybe it was nice of him that he didn't kill Jin as well? Oh well. We do learn that Sun was at the bank with Mikhail while Jin was in the fridge when we saw him in Sayid's episode. The watch was in fact for Keamy and the money did get held at customs which caused Jin to get tied up in the restaurant fridge, like many suspected. And Mikhail is apparently fated to have one eye since it happened in the sideways as well.
It was interesting how in the original, Sun learned English and was planning to run away by herself in LA (Jin may have been planning for them to run away together on his father's advice after making the LA errand his last for Paik-but did Paik plan to have Jin offed in LA in this time line as well?), while in the flash sideways, Jin and Sun weren't together yet and Sun was planning for them to run away together (if daddy hadn't freeze the "secret" account, that is). They are happier in the flash sideways, but it looks like Jin was to die and when he survived, Sun may now die. Is it their destiny to be apart??
Locke promises to find Sun for Jin- everyone is promising these two that? I hope they aren't building for them not to be together ultimately. I'd be mad.
Sayid tells Locke he can't feel emotions and Locke says something curious- that might be best for what's to come. The war? I hope the war is not too corny or predictable or as simple as a war. That would be a big disappointment. I've had enough of war, myself.
Ilana says Ben's lying because he opened his mouth, which was great. Good one.
She also says Jacob hasn't misled or lied to her yet, which is a contrast to some other characters. She seems to be the only one who hasn't doubted Jacob even when it looked like Richard didn't know what to do as Jacob had said he would. There could be religious symbolism, there. Oh, and Hurley hasn't really doubted, but he can see Jacob and seems to be just relaying stuff so I don't know where he stands. Is he following because he believes or trusts Jacob because he can see him, does he not trust him, does he feel obligated to relay these messages despite not knowing who to trust?
Sun runs from Locke when they meet in her garden. He offers his hand and she bolts. She's terrified and doesn't trust him. This leads to her running into a tree. (Really?) Locke tells her he can't make her, so there's that element of choice or free will that we've seen with both Locke and Jacob.
Sun's speaking Korean only after the jungle fall. She can understand and write English, however- as Jack finds out when he tests his hypothesis from his experience as a doctor. I thought the irony was great. He has become quite the man of faith since his lighthouse visit, but he's the one with the scientific explanation for this. On Jay and Jack's podcast, they thought MIB could have taken away her language since he wouldn't have wanted her to tell what she found out. I like the dual explanations of supernatural and science.
Jack promises Sun they won't leave without Jin. How many more will promise these two that?? She writes that she doesn't trust Locke, but does trust Jack.
We see Room 23 again and Jin confirms this when he flips the switch and we see the subliminal images, sound and lights that Karl was exposed to. Jin wants to see Widmore and conveniently Zoe relays that Widmore wants to see him. Widmore apparently wants to see him because his name's on DHARMA geological survey maps of electromagnetic pockets. I guess that's an answer for us. That, and if Locke escapes everyone we know and love would simply cease to be. What does that mean? It doesn't sound like death or murder... I thought they'd debunked the dream theory. I hope it's better than that.
MIB's shady side tuns up when Claire realizes Aaron will think Kate's his mom, not her. MIB has said she will see Aaron again, but maybe like with Sayid, they won't be able to have the relationship she really wants. I'm still confused about the emphasis on her raising him (psychic) and keeping him (Kate and others) and MIB's declaration that he and Aaron have crazy mothers and things would have been better for him had she not been, implying that he doesn't want her to raise Aaron. He did promise to reunite them if she ran the errand in the temple, though.
We learn that Kate was a candidate, but is now crossed off the cave wall. Is she also gone from the lighthouse wheel? What caused her to lose candidate status? Is this real or just what Locke is trying to figure out? I wonder if Locke is the one crossing off the names as he finds out info on the candidates or if someone else is and he looked at it. He did cross Locke off, though, not that he is the only one able to do that. So, Kate and Claire aren't candidates, but Locke needs them to bring the other candidates off the island (or to kill them??).
Sawyer of someone asks the question many fans wanted to know- why use the boat- why not turn into smoke and fly on over there? What is it with Smokey and water? His problem is more so oceans than rain I guess... His human form can go over water in a boat and both forms seem to be able to be contained by the sonic fence. What is he???
Does he not actually have control over when he becomes Smokey? If not, who does?
Locke responds to Sawyer that he doesn't like secrets and that's why he sent Sayid- to see what's in the locked room on the sub.
I was kind of disappointed Locke didn't do something when he arrived on Hydra. He wasn't able to cross the pylons and we still don't know why. He smiles when Widmore's people shoot at him (because he can't be killed that way or by those people?? Or they have really bad aim.) and says he comes in peace.
Widmore says he doesn't know who MIB is, but has an idea of what he is. He's heard myths and legends and noises in the jungle while he lived here. I wonder what it is Widmore thinks Locke is?
Widmore is a little upset that Zoe jumped the gun and kidnapped Jin a few days earlier than planned. He did show Jin pictures of his daughter, which was nice. Obviously, Widmore is using that to motivate him to do what he wants... He is to be shown the package (Desmond). Do Widmore's goals align or interfere with either MIB's or Jacob's goals?
Also disappointing was that Sayid didn't interact with anyone when he went to see who (not what-as corrected by Widmore) the package was. Desmond appeared to see him, but couldn't do anything about it. I know they are building to the finale and all, but this one was a bit slow. I didn't hate it, though. Ab Aeterno was slow island-wise, but at least we got a lot of good info and a good story on Richard.
I didn't catch this, but Lostpedia has this:
When speaking with Jin, Widmore uses the phrase "happily ever after", which is a direct reference to the title of the next episode.
-->I found that it was actually Keamy who said it when Jin and Sun asked that Keamy not tell Mr. Paik that Jin and Sun are involved.
This was a bit confusing since isn't that the reason for Mr. Paik's paying Keamy to kill Jin?? He should already know. I guess when Keamy reveals this, Jin can't understand (English), so it's more irony or something.
The title has a less happy sort of meaning for Desmond or whomever this episode is about? I hope not!
That is looking to be wrong information, unless he is in the background or something. ? He's not on the guest star list. A lot of characters are in LA, so it's possible no matter who's centric episode it is, I guess.
Synopsis:(From ABC Television Network) Sun and Jin desperately continue their search for one another, and Locke confronts his enemy.
Guest starring:
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Kevin Durand as Keamy
Anthony Azizi as Omar
Andrew Divoff as Mikhail Bakunin
Sheila Kelley as Zoe
Fred Koehler as Seamus
Chad Donella as desk clerk
Natalie Garcia Fryman as Ms. Kendall
Larry Joshua as Burditt
***
Post episode:
I didn't love this episode. I'll watch it again and see what I think, though. We learned a few things, though.
A drugged Desmond is the package and Locke's enemy (ABC summary) isn't Jacob, but Widmore. Is the package what was behind two locks and a guard in the sub? Why do you need two locks and a guard for a drugged guy? Perhaps it wasn't to keep drugged Desmond from leaving, but to keep him from being kidnapped- or Desmond is only part of the package. Calling Desmond the package reminded me of Mr. Paik's employees delivering his messages, which are beatings or kills.
In the flash sideways, Jin and Sun aren't married but they still end up going to LA "together," they are secretly dating and happy, Sun doesn't know English- unlike in the original, Jin still works for Mr. Paik, and Sun is pregnant- like on the island. Since she didn't appear to have that fling with the family friend, she knows it's Jin's. And, by the way, Jin doesn't have fertility problems in the flash sideways.
It has been asked, is the baby in the flash sideways Jin's. I say yes. No doubt. Before the knock at the door, she was going to tell him something. Probably that she was pregnant.
Why does Jin still work for Mr. Paik? I thought this was a bargain in order for Sun to be able marry Jin. Mr. Paik is another master and ruthless manipulator, it seems. In the flash sideways, Mr. Paik sends Jin to LA to be killed by Keamy the hit man and his friends- Sun gets shot at the end so, that may backfire. In the original story, Mr. Paik probably gets Jin to work for him so Sun will hate him as she hates her father for what he does. I don't know that she knows what her father does in the flash sideways; it wasn't clear. Or perhaps, her father doesn't order hits in this one. He did pay Keamy to get Jin.
Sayid just gave Jin the knife to free himself. Not very nice. But, on the other hand, he witnessed Sayid killing or at least shooting everyone. So maybe it was nice of him that he didn't kill Jin as well? Oh well. We do learn that Sun was at the bank with Mikhail while Jin was in the fridge when we saw him in Sayid's episode. The watch was in fact for Keamy and the money did get held at customs which caused Jin to get tied up in the restaurant fridge, like many suspected. And Mikhail is apparently fated to have one eye since it happened in the sideways as well.
It was interesting how in the original, Sun learned English and was planning to run away by herself in LA (Jin may have been planning for them to run away together on his father's advice after making the LA errand his last for Paik-but did Paik plan to have Jin offed in LA in this time line as well?), while in the flash sideways, Jin and Sun weren't together yet and Sun was planning for them to run away together (if daddy hadn't freeze the "secret" account, that is). They are happier in the flash sideways, but it looks like Jin was to die and when he survived, Sun may now die. Is it their destiny to be apart??
Locke promises to find Sun for Jin- everyone is promising these two that? I hope they aren't building for them not to be together ultimately. I'd be mad.
Sayid tells Locke he can't feel emotions and Locke says something curious- that might be best for what's to come. The war? I hope the war is not too corny or predictable or as simple as a war. That would be a big disappointment. I've had enough of war, myself.
Ilana says Ben's lying because he opened his mouth, which was great. Good one.
She also says Jacob hasn't misled or lied to her yet, which is a contrast to some other characters. She seems to be the only one who hasn't doubted Jacob even when it looked like Richard didn't know what to do as Jacob had said he would. There could be religious symbolism, there. Oh, and Hurley hasn't really doubted, but he can see Jacob and seems to be just relaying stuff so I don't know where he stands. Is he following because he believes or trusts Jacob because he can see him, does he not trust him, does he feel obligated to relay these messages despite not knowing who to trust?
Sun runs from Locke when they meet in her garden. He offers his hand and she bolts. She's terrified and doesn't trust him. This leads to her running into a tree. (Really?) Locke tells her he can't make her, so there's that element of choice or free will that we've seen with both Locke and Jacob.
Sun's speaking Korean only after the jungle fall. She can understand and write English, however- as Jack finds out when he tests his hypothesis from his experience as a doctor. I thought the irony was great. He has become quite the man of faith since his lighthouse visit, but he's the one with the scientific explanation for this. On Jay and Jack's podcast, they thought MIB could have taken away her language since he wouldn't have wanted her to tell what she found out. I like the dual explanations of supernatural and science.
Jack promises Sun they won't leave without Jin. How many more will promise these two that?? She writes that she doesn't trust Locke, but does trust Jack.
We see Room 23 again and Jin confirms this when he flips the switch and we see the subliminal images, sound and lights that Karl was exposed to. Jin wants to see Widmore and conveniently Zoe relays that Widmore wants to see him. Widmore apparently wants to see him because his name's on DHARMA geological survey maps of electromagnetic pockets. I guess that's an answer for us. That, and if Locke escapes everyone we know and love would simply cease to be. What does that mean? It doesn't sound like death or murder... I thought they'd debunked the dream theory. I hope it's better than that.
MIB's shady side tuns up when Claire realizes Aaron will think Kate's his mom, not her. MIB has said she will see Aaron again, but maybe like with Sayid, they won't be able to have the relationship she really wants. I'm still confused about the emphasis on her raising him (psychic) and keeping him (Kate and others) and MIB's declaration that he and Aaron have crazy mothers and things would have been better for him had she not been, implying that he doesn't want her to raise Aaron. He did promise to reunite them if she ran the errand in the temple, though.
We learn that Kate was a candidate, but is now crossed off the cave wall. Is she also gone from the lighthouse wheel? What caused her to lose candidate status? Is this real or just what Locke is trying to figure out? I wonder if Locke is the one crossing off the names as he finds out info on the candidates or if someone else is and he looked at it. He did cross Locke off, though, not that he is the only one able to do that. So, Kate and Claire aren't candidates, but Locke needs them to bring the other candidates off the island (or to kill them??).
Sawyer of someone asks the question many fans wanted to know- why use the boat- why not turn into smoke and fly on over there? What is it with Smokey and water? His problem is more so oceans than rain I guess... His human form can go over water in a boat and both forms seem to be able to be contained by the sonic fence. What is he???
Does he not actually have control over when he becomes Smokey? If not, who does?
- Jacob?
- Events on the island?
- His emotions, like the Hulk? He did say he used to feel love, sadness, etc, though...
Locke responds to Sawyer that he doesn't like secrets and that's why he sent Sayid- to see what's in the locked room on the sub.
I was kind of disappointed Locke didn't do something when he arrived on Hydra. He wasn't able to cross the pylons and we still don't know why. He smiles when Widmore's people shoot at him (because he can't be killed that way or by those people?? Or they have really bad aim.) and says he comes in peace.
Widmore says he doesn't know who MIB is, but has an idea of what he is. He's heard myths and legends and noises in the jungle while he lived here. I wonder what it is Widmore thinks Locke is?
Widmore is a little upset that Zoe jumped the gun and kidnapped Jin a few days earlier than planned. He did show Jin pictures of his daughter, which was nice. Obviously, Widmore is using that to motivate him to do what he wants... He is to be shown the package (Desmond). Do Widmore's goals align or interfere with either MIB's or Jacob's goals?
Also disappointing was that Sayid didn't interact with anyone when he went to see who (not what-as corrected by Widmore) the package was. Desmond appeared to see him, but couldn't do anything about it. I know they are building to the finale and all, but this one was a bit slow. I didn't hate it, though. Ab Aeterno was slow island-wise, but at least we got a lot of good info and a good story on Richard.
I didn't catch this, but Lostpedia has this:
When speaking with Jin, Widmore uses the phrase "happily ever after", which is a direct reference to the title of the next episode.
-->I found that it was actually Keamy who said it when Jin and Sun asked that Keamy not tell Mr. Paik that Jin and Sun are involved.
This was a bit confusing since isn't that the reason for Mr. Paik's paying Keamy to kill Jin?? He should already know. I guess when Keamy reveals this, Jin can't understand (English), so it's more irony or something.
The title has a less happy sort of meaning for Desmond or whomever this episode is about? I hope not!
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